Please Give us Take 20ish

[Sir Odin]

Checks Without Rolls
A skill check represents an attempt to accomplish some goal, usually while under some sort of time pressure or distraction. Sometimes, though, a character can use a skill under more favorable conditions and eliminate the luck factor.

Taking 10
When your character is not being threatened or distracted, you may choose to take 10. Instead of rolling 1d20 for the skill check, calculate your result as if you had rolled a 10. For many routine tasks, taking 10 makes them automatically successful. Distractions or threats (such as combat) make it impossible for a character to take 10. In most cases, taking 10 is purely a safety measure —you know (or expect) that an average roll will succeed but fear that a poor roll might fail, so you elect to settle for the average roll (a 10). Taking 10 is especially useful in situations where a particularly high roll wouldn’t help.

Taking 20
When you have plenty of time (generally 2 minutes for a skill that can normally be checked in 1 round, one full-round action, or one standard action), you are faced with no threats or distractions, and the skill being attempted carries no penalties for failure, you can take 20. In other words, eventually you will get a 20 on 1d20 if you roll enough times. Instead of rolling 1d20 for the skill check, just calculate your result as if you had rolled a 20.

Taking 20 means you are trying until you get it right, and it assumes that you fail many times before succeeding. Taking 20 takes twenty times as long as making a single check would take.

Since taking 20 assumes that the character will fail many times before succeeding, if you did attempt to take 20 on a skill that carries penalties for failure, your character would automatically incur those penalties before he or she could complete the task. Common “take 20” skills include Escape Artist, Open Lock, and Search.

Ability Checks and Caster Level Checks
The normal take 10 and take 20 rules apply for ability checks. Neither rule applies to caster level checks.

As far as i know the search skill is allready a static number, but why cant we get take 10 and take 20? Some of these new traps (cabal for one) is so insanly hard hard no 'ordenary' rouge would make the jobb under a roll of 15 or maybe never. 25% sucsess is kinda scarry (btw, i kinda like it )
I guess that nobody would mind letting the rouge use 20 times longer on that crucial trap as long as it gets done.

not only rouges would benefit from this, take example a paladin with an umd of 17, sits down uses 2-3 min on reading a rais dead scroll, in my mind the poor dead fellow would cheer and the pally would feel really usefull.

some ppl might say that players are gonna exploit this, but all the post are bitching about the rules, well the rules clearly says u can do it. 2nd most ppl would settle for take 10, since using 2-3minutes disabling a trap would be sluggish.

btw i like it hardcore and would prob roll 99% of the time and just make sure my skills hold messure. ummm thats kinda why i posted this too, as i have mentioned earlier, there are no way you can do all traps unless your drow/elf with mid 20 wis/int, full spot/search/dd line, have some raid loot and uses skill focus + boost.

I would like to point out that i love that the new traps got a decent DC, but 72+ is kinda tough, Either gives us take 10-20 or make the critical failure lower so that propper rouges gets a 90ish% of sucsess

keep up the good work designing intelligent quest and the nice details.

Some quest tips from Fubbz if your borred of the quest material out there:

make a pot of coffee, be prepared to recall and get some companions.

And the dead shall rise...
this quest has some awsome details, take your time and enjoy the walls, sealings and agony of permanent mummy curse

The Twilight Forge
take 1 of your best mates and duo it and you will noticed the clever design of how it was supposed to be a 12 man raid. be hardcore, open elite, go naked and unbuffed ^^.

Chamber of Ryium
Test your sneaking abilities. the less kills, the better, PS can be scarry

Cabal for one
dont be a wimp, kill the first dude and do all the traps.

last i want to say loot taste better when you really deserve it!

have a fun day in DDO

[Illarvan]

Nice post fubbz

lil problem there, you can take 10or20 on search, but you can't on a disable or umd. not really much of a concern though

[Lite]

Oh Yeah Give us take 20 would be real cool, I imagine though that with the Rogue saying i'm gonna take a 20 with a trap I don't think it would work feasibly, the rogue takes 2 minutes inside a trap with spikes, fire, ice,acid, lava, nukes 'Guys gimme 2 minutes '

The poor Rogue's buffs wear off before the 2 minutes are out: If he managed to survive for 2 minutes I'm sure he would have rolled a 1 on his evasion by then

I'm not as brushed up on this rule, But i think it sounds reasonable to take a extended period of time in the case of a Scroll use, The Character already has a chance to use them, he knows he's used them before, he sits down for 2 minutes and really puts his head round it to make sure he got it all sorted, in the mean time the whole party can check DDo Forums for Good Posts and Ideas.


^.^

[Ondal]

As I understand it, doing searches is already implemented as taking 20.

[Sir Odin]

Originally Posted by Ondal

As I understand it, doing searches is already implemented as taking 20.

yeah as i said, its a static number, but thats ok.

Originally Posted by Illarvan

lil problem there, you can take 10or20 on search, but you can't on a disable or umd....

Originally Posted by myself^^

Common “take 20” skills include Escape Artist, Open Lock, and Search.

it only mention common skilles used, maybe me and my PnP freinds have missunturpedet this skill use, but we always allowed take 20 on reasonable situations.

for example
The group slayed the big bad ogre mage (sadly you had a bit brewsky) so you figure out you want carve out his kneecap.... After all your a gnome rouge so you figure out that you want to make a soup boul out of this kneecap, *bam, natural 20, nice, a perfect soupe boul! ( you think 'hmmmm, maybe its magical, at least worth something'). You decide to apprice this item, but sadly you didnt have enough skill point so you turn around to the bard and say ' plz m8, help me figure out the price on this nice boul i made. (of course the bard is played be a serious player) the bard says ' Let me sit down this afternoon and figure it out while you go and get some firewood and water'
so i belive any skills can be taken on a 20, but its gonna take a while, depending on the complexity of the jobb.

[ReaperAlex]

Originally Posted by Sir Odin

As far as i know the search skill is allready a static number, but why cant we get take 10 and take 20? Some of these new traps (cabal for one) is so insanly hard hard no 'ordenary' rouge would make the jobb under a roll of 15 or maybe never. 25% sucsess is kinda scarry (btw, i kinda like it )
I guess that nobody would mind letting the rouge use 20 times longer on that crucial trap as long as it gets done.

not only rouges would benefit from this, take example a paladin with an umd of 17, sits down uses 2-3 min on reading a rais dead scroll, in my mind the poor dead fellow would cheer and the pally would feel really usefull.

some ppl might say that players are gonna exploit this, but all the post are bitching about the rules, well the rules clearly says u can do it. 2nd most ppl would settle for take 10, since using 2-3minutes disabling a trap would be sluggish.

btw i like it hardcore and would prob roll 99% of the time and just make sure my skills hold messure. ummm thats kinda why i posted this too, as i have mentioned earlier, there are no way you can do all traps unless your drow/elf with mid 20 wis/int, full spot/search/dd line, have some raid loot and uses skill focus + boost.

I would like to point out that i love that the new traps got a decent DC, but 72+ is kinda tough, Either gives us take 10-20 or make the critical failure lower so that propper rouges gets a 90ish% of sucsess

keep up the good work designing intelligent quest and the nice details.


have a fun day in DDO

first up i'd like to say adding take a 10 and take a 20 into the game could be a good thing. i mentioned this in the attribute runes thread, another place these rules could apply.

i think we already take a 10 for search (and runes), the option to take a 20 with a longer timer would be great though! or just plain out roll for things. i can see where the dev's have streamlined game play by assuming this check is better on a 10 and that check is better on a roll, but having the option to over-ride the default behaviour would be real nice

your example of a paladin taking a 20 on a res scroll is flawed though. sure it would work but you'd have to burn 20 scrolls to do it! you have to assume 19 failures to get 1 success. still, its just a bad example (unless ure that rich ) and i think taking a 20 can be very useful in some places when your happy to wait for the right out come.

question is how do you tell the game which way you want to do things? obviously the normal button bashing and clicking will do the same old default method, we just need a way to override things to choose which way to make the check. add new actions to bind keys to? force roll, force 10 or force 20? so you hold down your override key then push the normal skill button or double click just as normal.

taking a 20 on traps could be fun. it would mean automatically rolling a 1, great way to see if your good enough or not .

also the rule about not being able to take a 10 when under stress doesnt apply to DDO. main reason being when under said stress if you get hit its an automatic fail. so thats nicely balanced to start with.

[Sir Odin]

Thanx guys for great replies

i see now that our GM gave us 'handicap' on take 20

For those of you that have played with me, you prob know that my d20 is more like a d6, so take 10 would say i could use all scrolls and disable all traps without failure

take 20 would be nice for all of you that arent elfish and could find the really hard traps or when your stuck at some stupid rune

We could have a 'Feat' just like 'Attack' (auto attack) which said; "At any skill checks you have +10, but no roll, this only applies if you got any ranks in that skill. This mode cant be used with interactive with NPC's"

We should also have a 'Action boost' for Aid; "Activating this ability, helps companion with a +2 on skill checks you have more than +5 base ranks in for X seconds". Kinda like the hafling companion.

so to say, we could do with only take 10. if we did we could have normal rolling on search, then choose if we want take 10 or not.

Originally Posted by http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/usingSkills.htm#skillChecks

Difficulty (DC) Example (Skill Used)
Very easy (0) Notice something large in plain sight (Spot)
Easy (5) Climb a knotted rope (Climb)
Average (10) Hear an approaching guard (Listen)
Tough (15) Rig a wagon wheel to fall off (Disable Device)
Challenging (20) Swim in stormy water (Swim)
Formidable (25) Open an average lock (Open Lock)
Heroic (30) Leap across a 30-foot chasm (Jump)
Nearly impossible (40) Track a squad of orcs across hard ground after 24 hours of rainfall (Survival)

just for fun, for you rule slaves DC70+ would uber epic

[Anthorin]

It does make sense, but I suspect implementing at this late stage could invalidate many of the existing quest designs.

Originally Posted by Sir Odin

.....but all the post are bitching about the rules, well the rules clearly says u can do it.

I dont think so. Are you getting confused between DDO, PnP D&D and D20? ;-)

[Sir Odin]

Originally Posted by Anthorin

It does make sense, but I suspect implementing at this late stage could invalidate many of the existing quest designs.

I dont think so. Are you getting confused between DDO, PnP D&D and D20? ;-)

1. the DC on traps and other skill are the same, so taking 10 wouldnt make a different, only that you had an choice.

2. ??? um didnt quite get that... my point is if you read other threads for example the Please fix Deathward! post you see ppl screaming for D&D rules for the most stupid things. lol that vorpal post still amusses me.

happy weekend peeps

[Tasnia]

Well.. i can se the point in maing the "take 10" possible, but again, if they make every last encounter or DC as the PnP rules describes, then there would be no challenge... as far as i know, everyone is overpowered btw... how many PnP players, have a charecter at lvl 14 in paper, that have an average abillity score at 25????
sry to say... but this game is already overpowered, so i kind alike there is a challenge... crist... a group of 6 lvl 12-13 chars can take a quest on lvl 16 without any real problems... if i used that kind of challenges on my grp, they would overthrow me, burn me, kill me some more, and eat me...

and i wouldnt ever give that many powerfull magical items to a lvl 14 char...

just for the record... now we are rule addicts...

DM's guide say the following:
______________________

table 5-1 p. 135: Charecter wealth by level

lvl 14: 150.000 GP
______________________

then again... some calculatings...
Some basic items that all charecters at lvl 14 have, or have in same pricerange.
______________________

+3 icyburst longsword: 50.315 GP
+5 Fullplate: 26.650 GP
50 Cure serious wounds potions: 37.000 GP
Braces of armor +5: 25.000 GP
Cloak of Charisma +4: 16.000 GP
2x +1 tomes: 55.000 GP
Belt of strength +6: 36.000
_________

All in all that is worth: 250.965 GP...

well... a general character on lvl 14 has at least 2 or 3 times as much... so quit complaining guys

im not bitter or anything, im just saying...


-A PnP addict