Alignment changing quests.

[Wolfspite]

My suggestion here is that some, NOT ALL, quests be so overtly lawful/good or chaotic/evil that when you finish the quest you get an alignment shift.

A system akin to that used in NWN would work I think, with Lawful being at +100, Neutral being 0 and Chaotic being at -100.

Equally, Good would be at +100, Neutral at 0 and Evil at -100.

The crossover point could then be placed at 50 and -50 to change from Neutral to Lawful/Good and Chaotic/Evil respectively.

So, if you started a character as Chaotic Good, its alignment number would be -100, 100.

Now if a particular quest required numerous lawful actions such as the option to return items to NPC's, or sell such items, then returning an item gains you an alignment shift towards lawful, not returning the item and selling it for your own gain shifts you towards chaotic, say 1 point per item. If there were 5 items in the quest then you would need to run the quest 10 times to move from fully lawful at +100 to the start of nuetral at +50.

There could also be a few quests that would move your alignment when you finish them. One quest in particular that springs to mind is Purge the Heretics. The RL analogy is that a religious sect hires mercenaries to wipe out another religious sect just because they believe something different. In this case, the Silver Flame are inflicting their belief system on others at the pain of death by hiring adventurers to kill said non believers. This seems to me to be verging on an evil action as the adventurers are required to purge innocents of another belief system. Anyway, having said all of that, such a quest would be great for a paladin that wishes to fall from grace and become a blackguard.

This brings me to the requirement of such a system in that if prestige classes such as the blackguard are implemented, then how does a paladin fall from grace to become a blackguard in the game?

It also allows characters created as True Nuetral for example who don't have any umd, to change their alignment in order to use items that provide a benefit to that character.

[Karacan]

While in theory that's nice, it doesn't tie in with the current favour system.

I don't like the quest you mentioned and refuse to do them with 4 of 5 my main characters because of the "evil", but my main character will do it sneakily on elite to gain maximum favour one day. If she was a paladin, she couldn't do it (or rather, pay a hidden "fee" for atonement afterwards for being allowed to do that quest....)

I'd much rather see more options for solving a quest, and make the choices alignment-based... many of the new quests sport talkative NPCs that can often be convinced to a peaceful solution.

But then you have the problem of parties - will everyone in the party take an alignment hit or boost?


I like the idea, I just don't see a mechanism to implement it into the game without introducing additional restrictions/costs for characters who rely on specific alignments (Paladins, true neutral Stability users, someone with a chaotic good weaponset....).

[sucinum]

I always wanted to splash a level Barbarian for my Paladin

[Velris]

in DDO you can easily make a paladin/rogue, and that is STOOPID.

Paladin = force of Law and Good, protect the weak (if not Evil), honor in battle (paladin CANNOT stab, attack from behind, no supposed to terminate ennemy that surrender, even evil ones, cannot use poison, not supposed to bear that friend summon fiendish stuff, and so on).

Rogue = use poison, attack from behind, do not respect the law (murder, robbery, and so on), more, more, more....


and so, a paladin /rogue is NOT supposed to be possible, but we can...

and as you noticed, it is IMPOSSIBLE to get an evil character, and i wonder why, cause for prestige class, it will be a pain (or not required, and we will get paladin/rogue/assassin ^^)

[sucinum]

Originally Posted by Velris

Rogue = use poison, attack from behind, do not respect the law (murder, robbery, and so on), more, more, more....

Simply not true, a rogue is no thief or burglar, he is a versatile adventurer. Indiana Jones may be an example for a LG rogue.

[Karacan]

Originally Posted by Velris

Rogue = use poison, attack from behind, do not respect the law (murder, robbery, and so on), more, more, more....

The Honourable and Lawful profession of the Lock- and Trapsmith also counts as a rogue. It's all a question how you play them, but rogue is none of the professions , for a reason, that is limited by alignment.

[Moheidra]

Originally Posted by Karacan

I'd much rather see more options for solving a quest, and make the choices alignment-based...

This idea is the one that I believe works the best.

As an example you have 'Dead girls spell book' where at the end you can choose if you want to deliver the eveil item or destroy it:
- If you destroy the item then you gain no reward.
- If you give the item you win a 500gp gem.

Depending on your option this should also incur a alignment change considering the point system.
This type of solution is also good because it only affects the player and not the entire group.

[Sarezar]

I agree 100% with your suggestion.
I don't care at all if not all characters can do all quests for favour.

We can't complain that this game is not RP enough or that is not D&D enough and then say I want all my characters to be able to do all quests.

Having different solutions for some quests is a great idea, yes. But I want to see Evil alignments too, and quests for evil characters as well. And you cannot murder a king while you are a lawful paladin.

So, YES to alignment change from some quests as long as EVIL alignments get in the game. Otherwise, all the current quests are about doing something good, or doing something for money/reward/fame, which is possible for all current characters from Lawful Good to Chaotic Neutral Alignment.