Reduce power of Raise Dead

[Thomson]

I think Raise Dead is far to powerful fo a low level resurrection spell (which it is)

Raise Dead should do two things (in addition to bringing someone back from the dead):

• Bestow one negative level on the raised character, which can only been healed at a rest shrine or in a tavern and not by any spell.
• Cause the raised character to loose 50% of her spell points.

[Starlance Panther™]

I have to totaly disagree with you im afraid

I gained my ability to raise dead when i hit 9th Level and i would never go through a quest without it.

Its one of the clerics best assists apart from their healing spells.

I rarely have had to use it when i have been with a balanced party but their has been occasions when someone in our party has been subject to in-escapable death and i have managed to bring them back to continue the fight.

e.g if your the poor sod that gets targeted by a beholder and wiped before you get a change to heal or defend yourself, Von2 for example.

Your penalised already if you are a caster and have most of your mana left when you die, normally you would then recall losing all your mana, and the party has to wait for your return.

Sure if their is a res shrine nearby, you can go there and use but yet again you lose all your mana after a normal res shrines use.

Further

You could say that you could use the mana/health shrine next to the res shrine to replace what you lost but there is not always a mana/health shrine in the instance (von2 etc) and if an adventure is pretty hard you may have already used the existing one so you have no choice but to recall and recharge etc.

I would rather be able to res someone with no penalty to them except the usual xp loss. Its quicker, the game flow continues at the same rate and in doing so helping your grp acheive their goals, especially if they have been wiped with no fault of their own.

[raiders7]

Thomson, I'm afraid but I disagree as well.

"Bestow one negative level on the raised character, which can only been healed at a rest shrine or in a tavern and not by any spell."

Try to do VON or any other high level quest and then you'll see that what you're proposing is not that good.
For your information, several quest (VON6, Xioran Cipher) doesn't allow you to come back in the quest once you cross a certain stage.

We already have XP lost when we die..no needs to additionnal penalties.

[Jeek Elemental]

you kinda proved the point of the OP instead of disagreeing, mr Panther

not just clerics, anyone with umd can read a raise scroll tho.

[Ergan Stonebrow]

I think clerics missing spells like invisibilty to undead and sanctuary magic weapon spiritual hammer etc have cowed down the overall effectiveness of the class so to suggest bestowing a negative levl on raise dead which i find a bit of a nerf in the wrong direction ludicrous..one of the finest points of playing a cleric is the ability to raise dead...i would suggest the ability stay the same as it works fine and is perfectly balanced with the game..say no to more nerfs add more features and spells yes but no more nerfs please..

[Thomson]

I would rather see the quests balanced and redesigned so less dying is *required* than raise dead staying as it is.

At the moment there are few ways to kill a Beholder without loosing a party member (Having a high level Paladin with you is one of the few that allmost allways work).

However, level 10 quests shouldn't be designed in a way that dying and being raised from the dead is a common occurence (that only should happen at lvl 17+ after true resurrection is available)

[Meowin]

/agreed

To raise someone from the dead is a very powerful ability and should be hard to do. A negative lvl that can be healed at a shrine or tavern - that´s nearly nothing compared with what the spell does in PnP:

Originally Posted by d20srd

The subject of the spell loses one level (or 1 Hit Die) when it is raised, just as if it had lost a level or a Hit Die to an energy-draining creature. If the subject is 1st level, it loses 2 points of Constitution instead (if this would reduce its Con to 0 or less, it can’t be raised). This level/HD loss or Constitution loss cannot be repaired by any means.

Alternatively i´d say the cleric looses 1/3 or 1/4 of his overall spell points or the subject of the spells suffers a penalty comparable with the one of being cursed.

Clerics lost their domains, correct. Clerics lost certain spells, correct. But they are still one of the most powerful classes in the game through all lvls. They can heal (not only HP but almost every other damage), buff, summon, they can be effective against undead and in melee. And something powerful like to raise dead should cost accordingly.

[Town Portal]

Uhm...

It allready costs 6k to cast (for me), so no nerfing of anything here, at all.

If you think its unfair to raise people, then just group with people that never dies... no ressing needed then.

[Smelt]

Call me old fashioned but we could always use the D&D rules for this spell!

Oh right but that would mean people losing Constitution points and therefore hit points and it would also mean you'd be limited by your constitution as to how many times you could be raised, unless you play an elf of course and then you can't be raised at all.

Hey you don't thing introducing this would stop people rushing off on their own or charging through a quest with the cavelier attitude of hey we did it and i only died three times this time!

Just a thought, now don't go getting all airiated about it.

[Bigwilly]

Originally Posted by Smelt

Call me old fashioned but we could always use the D&D rules for this spell!

Oh right but that would mean people losing Constitution points and therefore hit points and it would also mean you'd be limited by your constitution as to how many times you could be raised, unless you play an elf of course and then you can't be raised at all.

Not old fashioned Smelt, just old! Here is the full 3.5e description of Raise Dead from the SRD:

Raise Dead
Conjuration (Healing)
Level: Clr 5
Components: V, S, M, DF
Casting Time: 1 minute
Range: Touch
Target: Dead creature touched
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None; see text
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

You restore life to a deceased creature. You can raise a creature that has been dead for no longer than one day per caster level. In addition, the subject’s soul must be free and willing to return. If the subject’s soul is not willing to return, the spell does not work; therefore, a subject that wants to return receives no saving throw.

Coming back from the dead is an ordeal. The subject of the spell loses one level (or 1 Hit Die) when it is raised, just as if it had lost a level or a Hit Die to an energy-draining creature. If the subject is 1st level, it loses 2 points of Constitution instead (if this would reduce its Con to 0 or less, it can’t be raised). This level/HD loss or Constitution loss cannot be repaired by any means. A character who died with spells prepared has a 50% chance of losing any given spell upon being raised, in addition to losing spells for losing a level. A spellcasting creature that doesn’t prepare spells (such as a sorcerer) has a 50% chance of losing any given unused spell slot as if it had been used to cast a spell, in addition to losing spell slots for losing a level.

A raised creature has a number of hit points equal to its current Hit Dice. Any ability scores damaged to 0 are raised to 1. Normal poison and normal disease are cured in the process of raising the subject, but magical diseases and curses are not undone. While the spell closes mortal wounds and repairs lethal damage of most kinds, the body of the creature to be raised must be whole. Otherwise, missing parts are still missing when the creature is brought back to life. None of the dead creature’s equipment or possessions are affected in any way by this spell.

A creature who has been turned into an undead creature or killed by a death effect can’t be raised by this spell. Constructs, elementals, outsiders, and undead creatures can’t be raised. The spell cannot bring back a creature that has died of old age.

Material Component: Diamonds worth a total of least 5,000 gp.

No limit on how many times you can be raised and I would skip the constitution damage for level 1 PCs - not that they are ever likely to be raised anyway. Also, check out the material component. At 5k a pop, there is no need for other nerfing, although as someone suggested - spell points could be reduced by 50% as per the spell. I do agree that you should come back with one negative level, although I think this should be able to be healed like other negative levels with a restoration spell.