Radiance - What do you think?

Levin_csxjgf · 09-07-2009, 04:14 PM

We already have a petition against the Radiance system, but it struck me that it doesn't really give an idea of how much support it has amongst the community. We get the occasional /unsigned, but they just get lost in the rising post count. Anyone glancing at the thread will just think, 'wow, seems a lot of people have signed that petition!'

Something like this poll might have been posted before, but if it has it seems to have sunk without trace. Basically, I'm trying to get a more accurate idea of how the community views the Radiance system in its current state. Obviously, the outcome of the poll should be taken with the usual caveat, i.e. the forum community may not be representative of the subscriber population as a whole.

I also wanted to get more of an idea of how strongly people are in favour or against the system. So I subdivided both 'for' and 'against' into a 'strong' and 'weak' preference.

There is also an 'indifferent' option for those that, for whatever reason, simply don't care, or perhaps don't feel qualified to make a judgement about it (i.e. if you've never raided and/or have no intention of raiding).

cameltosis · 09-07-2009, 04:17 PM

seems u forgot the poll.....

Levin_csxjgf · 09-07-2009, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cameltosis

seems u forgot the poll.....

Heh, it posts the thread before it lets you write the poll. It should be there now!

cameltosis · 09-07-2009, 04:44 PM

cheers, wasnt aware u had to add poll after posting thread....

anyways, OT, voted "Strongly for - it significantly improves my enjoyment of the game".

Now, before you all start with the flames etc, let me clarify. Im a strong believer in gating content within MMO's. I believe it is the only true way to control and enforce progression through a game, and progression and acheivement adds to a players sense of fun in a game. I'm sure the vast majority feel happy or positive in some way / shape or form when we advance our characters.

Using radience armour as a means of gating raids ensures that all members who wish to visit further content must complete a set of goals to earn their armour. This provides early progression to the player, through the obtaining of a new armour set. It ensures that all players have a similar experience of the end game, and are geared similarly. This in itself makes balancing further content easier.

So in short, using radience armour as a method of gating future content ensures all end game players experience similar content, provides an easy method of character progression, and makes balancing further content easier.

Now, that being said, i dont agree with the current method of obtaining radience armour. I think every player should have to progress through each of the hard modes to obtain their armour, this is good practice for endgame, good fun (generally) and is a reasonable gate. What i think most people have a problem with, and i dont particularly enjoy, is the repeatition.

I dont really see the problem with just making people do each HM successfully once to get their armour. It shows that the player has the ability to conquer certain content (or the 5 people they are with have sufficient extra ability to carry that person through :P ), ensures progression of that persons character (attached to a feeling of accomplishment, as opposed to just buying gear) and helps balance classes for further content.

HolyGigi · 09-07-2009, 05:22 PM

Voted: Strongly for - It significantly adds to my enjoyment of LotRO.

Never got why the "casual" players complain they cant do the watcher because they dont have the armour, or now, the new raid. By definition, if you are a casual player, you do not raid! Its that simple. And if you do not raid, the set is almost useless to you. The crafted one is just as good for regular quests, or even the quest rewards can be used.

If you are a raider, getting the armor in HM is a way of honing your skills, getting accustomed to the team.
And in the new 3 man instances there is no one left to "carry your a*s". You have to work for your armor.

Grinding for radiance or top end gear is something for the more hard-core players. They are ones that WANT to do 20 runs in Forgotten Treasury for one Amber Ring, just because they think its worth it.
If everyone had quick access to the raids, then all the casual players with not so good gear and not used to 12 man action will complain that it is too hard, and that they dont have time to figure it out, or god knows what.
End game raids are for the players that can spend hours on end learning the new content, preparing for it (traits, deeds, best food, best pot, great gear, good teamwork). None of these are for players that log for 1 hour each day or less.

No offense to the casuals, but this is a game and has to please everyone. Some get book 7 and love it for the story, others think its boring. Some love book 8 for the harder then regular instances, while others hate it.

We all love and hate some parts of this game. But we have to realize that LOTRO is not meant for ME, its meant for hundreds of thousands of players, each with his own goals and expectations. So it has to cater to all.

Lilka · 09-07-2009, 05:42 PM

I don't mind the system. I have no intention of fighting the Watcher so I don't need radiance. I'm a casual and I know my place

BinabikErebor · 09-07-2009, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HolyGigi

Never got why the "casual" players complain they cant do the watcher because they dont have the armour, or now, the new raid. By definition, if you are a casual player, you do not raid! Its that simple. And if you do not raid, the set is almost useless to you. The crafted one is just as good for regular quests, or even the quest rewards can be used.

That seems to be the main issue. A complete lack of understanding between two types of players.

Casual players DID raid pre-Moria. But like everything else they do, not on a systematic basis. That's what I would call 'Casual'.

They would CLEARLY not do Rift for the gear, but for the thrill of it - and be very happy with killing the Balrog once or twice.

Binabik

Serendipity · 09-07-2009, 06:46 PM

strongly against. gate content through good design, not gear.

Pingu · 09-07-2009, 07:14 PM

Strongly against.

<= ex-casual-raider with multiple L60's

Vormir · 09-07-2009, 08:06 PM

I don't like it.
I can understand devs need to put challenges in the game. But the fact I need to get another set of armour to be able to raid with my friends is frustrating.
In fact it even puts me off to reach max level.

Oh well, I guess there's nothing I can do about it.

View Poll Results: What are your feelings about the use of Radiance as a means to gate raiding content?
Strongly for - It significantly adds to my enjoyment of LotRO.	22	8.03%
Generally for - I like it, but I wouldn't be too bothered if it was removed.	49	17.88%
Generally against - I dislike it, but I can live with it if I have to.	68	24.82%
Strongly against - It significantly reduces my enjoyment of LotRO.	120	43.80%
Indifferent - It doesn't bother or affect me.	15	5.47%
Voters: 274. You may not vote on this poll

09-07-2009, 04:14 PM	#1
Levin_csxjgf Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 312	Radiance - What do you think? We already have a petition against the Radiance system, but it struck me that it doesn't really give an idea of how much support it has amongst the community. We get the occasional /unsigned, but they just get lost in the rising post count. Anyone glancing at the thread will just think, 'wow, seems a lot of people have signed that petition!' Something like this poll might have been posted before, but if it has it seems to have sunk without trace. Basically, I'm trying to get a more accurate idea of how the community views the Radiance system in its current state. Obviously, the outcome of the poll should be taken with the usual caveat, i.e. the forum community may not be representative of the subscriber population as a whole. I also wanted to get more of an idea of how strongly people are in favour or against the system. So I subdivided both 'for' and 'against' into a 'strong' and 'weak' preference. There is also an 'indifferent' option for those that, for whatever reason, simply don't care, or perhaps don't feel qualified to make a judgement about it (i.e. if you've never raided and/or have no intention of raiding). __________________ Levin - Burglar - Laurelin The Silent Minority

09-07-2009, 04:17 PM	#2
cameltosis Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 540	seems u forgot the poll..... __________________ Jennifern Captain (R5) ------------ Guild Leader: Divine Retribution ------------ Anstalt (Champ R4) \| Spit (Reaver R6) \| Druel (Stalker R6)

09-07-2009, 04:44 PM	#4
cameltosis Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 540	cheers, wasnt aware u had to add poll after posting thread.... anyways, OT, voted "Strongly for - it significantly improves my enjoyment of the game". Now, before you all start with the flames etc, let me clarify. Im a strong believer in gating content within MMO's. I believe it is the only true way to control and enforce progression through a game, and progression and acheivement adds to a players sense of fun in a game. I'm sure the vast majority feel happy or positive in some way / shape or form when we advance our characters. Using radience armour as a means of gating raids ensures that all members who wish to visit further content must complete a set of goals to earn their armour. This provides early progression to the player, through the obtaining of a new armour set. It ensures that all players have a similar experience of the end game, and are geared similarly. This in itself makes balancing further content easier. So in short, using radience armour as a method of gating future content ensures all end game players experience similar content, provides an easy method of character progression, and makes balancing further content easier. Now, that being said, i dont agree with the current method of obtaining radience armour. I think every player should have to progress through each of the hard modes to obtain their armour, this is good practice for endgame, good fun (generally) and is a reasonable gate. What i think most people have a problem with, and i dont particularly enjoy, is the repeatition. I dont really see the problem with just making people do each HM successfully once to get their armour. It shows that the player has the ability to conquer certain content (or the 5 people they are with have sufficient extra ability to carry that person through :P ), ensures progression of that persons character (attached to a feeling of accomplishment, as opposed to just buying gear) and helps balance classes for further content. __________________ Jennifern Captain (R5) ------------ Guild Leader: Divine Retribution ------------ Anstalt (Champ R4) \| Spit (Reaver R6) \| Druel (Stalker R6)

09-07-2009, 05:42 PM	#6
Lilka Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Server: Eldar Posts: 853	I don't mind the system. I have no intention of fighting the Watcher so I don't need radiance. I'm a casual and I know my place __________________ lilka braska : warden : 60 gwenaëlle of rohan : champion : 60 elorie tilkyn : minstrel : 55 ysariel dathelor : runekeeper : 32 emberlain of dale : captain : 29 cedar tanglefoot : hunter : 29

09-07-2009, 05:22 PM	#5
HolyGigi Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 278	Voted: Strongly for - It significantly adds to my enjoyment of LotRO. Never got why the "casual" players complain they cant do the watcher because they dont have the armour, or now, the new raid. By definition, if you are a casual player, you do not raid! Its that simple. And if you do not raid, the set is almost useless to you. The crafted one is just as good for regular quests, or even the quest rewards can be used. If you are a raider, getting the armor in HM is a way of honing your skills, getting accustomed to the team. And in the new 3 man instances there is no one left to "carry your a*s". You have to work for your armor. Grinding for radiance or top end gear is something for the more hard-core players. They are ones that WANT to do 20 runs in Forgotten Treasury for one Amber Ring, just because they think its worth it. If everyone had quick access to the raids, then all the casual players with not so good gear and not used to 12 man action will complain that it is too hard, and that they dont have time to figure it out, or god knows what. End game raids are for the players that can spend hours on end learning the new content, preparing for it (traits, deeds, best food, best pot, great gear, good teamwork). None of these are for players that log for 1 hour each day or less. No offense to the casuals, but this is a game and has to please everyone. Some get book 7 and love it for the story, others think its boring. Some love book 8 for the harder then regular instances, while others hate it. We all love and hate some parts of this game. But we have to realize that LOTRO is not meant for ME, its meant for hundreds of thousands of players, each with his own goals and expectations. So it has to cater to all.

09-07-2009, 06:46 PM	#8
Serendipity Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 256	strongly against. gate content through good design, not gear.

09-07-2009, 07:14 PM	#9
Pingu Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Switzerland, but I'd much rather be in Wales :p Posts: 2,063	Strongly against. <= ex-casual-raider with multiple L60's __________________ Laurelin Paddock - Hunter & Explorer - Inactive Paddreth - Minstrel & Tinker - Inactive Pauncho Puddlefoot - Burglar & Armourcrafter - Inactive Moegren - Captain & Weaponsmith - Inactive Skyros - Loremaster & Scholar - Inactive Last edited by Pingu; 09-07-2009 at 07:16 PM.

09-07-2009, 08:06 PM	#10
Vormir Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: UK Posts: 104	I don't like it. I can understand devs need to put challenges in the game. But the fact I need to get another set of armour to be able to raid with my friends is frustrating. In fact it even puts me off to reach max level. Oh well, I guess there's nothing I can do about it. __________________ MMORPGs player since 1996\|Games Industry since 2001 Vormir Deveil [60] Guardian of Gondor Voltaran [37] Rune-Kepper of Rivendell Proud member of The Silent Minority family. EN-RP Laurelin Server "Don't be afraid, I'm going to give you the choice I never had..."

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