Hunters, Fellowships & Managing Agro

[Mizz]

With the popularity of the hunter class it has come to my attention that many of you hunters know very little of how agro works in fellowships. So heres a couple helpful things from a guardian that will make mine and other guardians life a lot less stressful.

You, the hunter

As a hunter you are one of the highest agro generating classes in lotro, your a high damage dealing class and if you go blindly into a fight you will grab agro and possibly get yourself or others killed. The main thing you should do to avoid a majority of issues is to make sure your attacking the same target as the tank, this will allow you to deal maximal damage and keep the guardian control over the fight.

So how do guardians manage agro and why should I care?

A guardian mainly concentrates building up agro on a single target, along with minor aoe agro on nearby targets. This requires that the tanks is constantly being hit by as many targets as possible, firstly this allows the tank to trigger his aoe taunt from blocking, secondly it keeps building up agro on the targets due to the damage they cause to the guardian.

This constant increase of agro from taking damage and taunting allows other classes to do their jobs. Melee classes like Champions, Burglars and Captains can deal their damage with little to none risk of getting agro. The ministrel can heal morale of the guardian with very little risk as well. Lore Masters and Hunters should also have very little problem dealing out their single target attacks on the tanks main target.

Because the guardian deals out around 75% of his taunt skills on a single target, the cycle of agro management is a very fragile process. Whenever someone else grabs agro from the guardian, it means the guardians chances of generating agro is reduced and in worst case scenario he/she has to change his targets to regain control of the fight. If another melee class gets agro, its often taken back in matter of seconds due to the close proximity of the guardian and his constant flow of aoe taunting skills. However when a long range class like a Hunter, Ministrel or a Lore Master grabs agro, it could mean the whole cycle of agro generation is destroyed because the guardian has to move to regain agro of the rampant monster. This is one of the main reasons for people dying in fellowships and its your responsibility as a damage dealer to make sure your not contributing to the problem.

What can I do to avoid getting agro?

Luckily it takes very little from you as a hunter to manage your agro generation if the guardian in your fellowship has any clue on how to tank. (which is a discussion for a whole different thread).

Heres a few helpful insights that will keep the frustration level of the guardian down to minimal, it takes very little effort from you as a hunter and just requires a little patience. In return your free to dish out as much damage as you possible can. A fair trade off?

1. Dont use Strength Stance in fellowships, the 15% increased damage is not worth the risks and annoyances caused by getting agro. As a hunter in a fellowship your main roles are dealing damage and managing your agro. There are some hunters who standby believing that agro managment is not the problem of a hunter but the job of a guardian, these people are ignorant jerks and should be educated on how agro generation works. Strength Stance is a solo skill, treat it as such. Endurance Stance is the recommended stance to be used in fellowships, but if you feel your not generating far to much agro you may experiment with using Precision Stance.

2. Dont pull targets at start of fights, let the guardian (or other designated tank class of the fellowship) pull mobs and let them get in a few hits before you dish out your highest damage skill. If your really impatient, at least start of with an attack that decreases movement speed of the target. This allows the guardian to taunt it while its heading towards you due to the agro you caused. But preferably wait a few seconds till the tank has control of the target before getting into the fight, you can use Focus or place a trap during this time which is far more useful for you and the fellowship in overal! The Focus allows you to dish out damage once the tank has agro and the trap acts as an additional safety net between the melee classes and ranged classes incase agro is lost for whatever reason.

3. Dont use your AOE attacks at the beginning of a fight, use them the in mid/end of a fight, that way chances that youll grab agro is minimal.

4. At higher levels make good use of your agro reducing skills, in hard fights these can be extremly helpful in reducing your agro generation. You dont want to be responsible for having a drake flying rampart shooting fireballs at the ministrel. Staying alive and managing agro is ALWAYS a higher priority than dealing damage!

Hope any of the above was helpful to any of you new to the class.

[davejm]

Very useful post, good stuff mate. Glad to see that I've got the right end of the stick with much of this stuff, as it's kinda how I saw things too, without actually knowing for sure.

[F6Knight]

pretty useful stuff aside from 1 point: i m sick and tired of people yelling that hunters should not use strenght stance.
a hunter is a nuker: use strenght stance ALL THE TIME

the problem is not hunters using strenght stance but a combination of
a) guardians not tanking properly
and
b) hunters not knowing HOW to properly use strenght stance

you dont nuke from the moment the guardian starts tanking
give him a few seconds to build agro. then go ahead and do your thing
99% of the time i dont pull agro away from the guardian in my group (even works with guardians up to 2 lvls below me)

[Caelin]

From a minstrels point of view, I would like to add a little bit here.

If you do happen to get aggro, do not panick and start to run away. We need you to stand still in order to heal you

This holds true for all classes, not just hunters, but the last few fellowships I have been in, it is the hunters that tend to get unwanted aggro, and run around in a failed attempt to get rid of it again.

As a minstrel I try to keep everyone alive. My main focus is on the main tank, but if others get unwanted aggro I try to keep them alive long enough for the main tank to get aggro back. So please stand still, ok? I know it hurts, but believe me, you will be glad you did. Not only can a minstrel heal you, but the Guardian can get aggro back a lot easier, when he does not have to run around trying to catch you.

[Bezayne]

I'd like add to a bit to the minstrel pov here. Namely the bit around running around - you can run and get heals, no problem. As long as you stay in range and in line of sight to the minstrel, you can be healed. But - and a big but - running around more often than not will make you draw more adds and thus endangering the whole group. Plus the aforementioned problems of a guardian who needs to run after you trying to get that mob off you.

My suggestion (I play both a minstrel and a hunter) - after getting aggro, if you can take a few hits, stand still and give others in your group time to react and help you out. If you are utterly convinced you need to run - use the speed debuff melee attack first, so the mob indeed runs slower than you, and then run in circles around the minstrel / guardian. Do not run away like a headless chicken!

Using the above method my hunter has "offtanked" on occasion, kiting an add around so other ranged dps could kill it or the tank grab it back once he has a hand free.

[chabio]

A very good post from the OP, Caelin and Bezayne. Since I usually Solo, it is good to be primed on how a guardian and Minstrel would like us to act in a fellowship.

I understood all that you had said and for the majority, agree with it.

However I would still use Strength stance when needed. Mainly to pull aggro off a Minstrel or someone who was taking a beating. A Guardian can take a lot of abuse, but if he was struggling with multiple mobs.. I would not hesitate pulling a single mob off him, if I thought I could handle it. It's not too dissimiliar to DAOC, running around is a selfish act which impedes the fellowship whilst heading to the tank or standing your ground is the better option.

But some useful posts none the less.. thank you for popping over.

[Mizz]

Originally Posted by F6Knight

pretty useful stuff aside from 1 point: i m sick and tired of people yelling that hunters should not use strenght stance.
a hunter is a nuker: use strenght stance ALL THE TIME

the problem is not hunters using strenght stance but a combination of
a) guardians not tanking properly
and
b) hunters not knowing HOW to properly use strenght stance

you dont nuke from the moment the guardian starts tanking
give him a few seconds to build agro. then go ahead and do your thing
99% of the time i dont pull agro away from the guardian in my group (even works with guardians up to 2 lvls below me)

This is one of my bigger issues with hunters. The use of Strength Stance comes down to several factors:

* level differences between you and the guardian, if your higher level than the guardian, be very careful of using Strength Stance.
* Level of the monsters, monsters higher live than the guardian will agro others more easily
* amount of +agro traits the guardian has. A guardian with several +agro traits will be more effective in canceling out the additional agro generated from your Strength Stance. Infact if the guardian has enhanced Protection, ask him to place it on you (which he should, unless perhaps if theres a high agro-magnent ministrel), this will even out the agro generated by your Strength Stance.

Still if you noticed grabbing agro regulary, please do the guardian a favour and switch to another stance. Tanking is a very taxing job and the extra 15% damage you do is not worth the extra work of having to run around chasing run away agro.

Running bytheway is another issue, never ever run around like a headless chicken, it just makes things even more confusing. If your in a desperate situation dealing with your grabbed agro, use whatever skills you have to stay alive untill the guardian (or another melee, hey captains?) can help you out.

[TheFloyd]

Thanks for all the tips! I've managed to keep myself fairly well alive so far but now and again there have been times when I wondered if I was doing anything wrong.

[zimoo]

Nice posts. I have recently tried to do what you said while in fellowships (since a few weeks ago) and things seem much more calm. I wait a few seconds at the start, maybe firing off a few auto-attacks before sending in all my swift bows and penetrating hits

Since I started doing this my repair bills have gone down by an incredible amount and our groups always seem to do better (although you could argue it's just because higher-level players understand their classes more). I still notice some agro-magnet hunters in my groups though, who insist on drawing the toughest enemy to themselves then complaining when they die. It's so easy to spot one of these as a fellow hunter, as I can just compare my power levels to theres (theres is normally empty, I'm still there with half left and doing good damage etc).

Until recently I was one of the strength-stance arrow-raining hunters this topic is designed to eliminate, but I must says it's actually more enjoyable how I'm playing now.

[Instakiller]

Originally Posted by F6Knight

pretty useful stuff aside from 1 point: i m sick and tired of people yelling that hunters should not use strenght stance.
a hunter is a nuker: use strenght stance ALL THE TIME

the problem is not hunters using strenght stance but a combination of
a) guardians not tanking properly
and
b) hunters not knowing HOW to properly use strenght stance

you dont nuke from the moment the guardian starts tanking
give him a few seconds to build agro. then go ahead and do your thing
99% of the time i dont pull agro away from the guardian in my group (even works with guardians up to 2 lvls below me)

dude ONLY use str stance in the middle of the fight towards the end even.
Never start a fight in fellowship with str stance unless you have to pull.
Use str stance and use your quick shot, the str stance anables your speed reduce on your quick shot.
After you pulled, change stance again untill your REALY sure the tank has full control of his fight, then switch to str stance again...thats how you should play YOUR hunter and you will be known verry quick as a good hunter.
Tanks will remeber you and ask you again in the future trust me.
i hope this willhelp allot of hunters out there