Spells and Saving Throws (A few tips)

[Kaju]

Here are a few tips for begginer spellcasters in the game. These advice go more for arcane spellcasters (wizard, sorcerer and bard) since they have more offensive spells but divine spellcasters (ranger, priest, paladin) can also make good use of them. I will not get into defensive spells (that boost allies or yourself) but offensive spells (Damage spells, disabling spells, charm spells, you name it!).

Every spell has the following characterists:
Name
School (Subschool) [Descriptor]
Level
Components
Range
Saving Throw
Spell Resistance
Descriptive Text

Here's an example:
Fireball (Name)
Evocation [Fire] (School [Descriptor])
Level: Sorc/Wiz 3
Components: V,S
Range: Long
Saving Throw: Reflex Half.
Spell Resistance: Yes
A fireball spell is spell that goes boom!

What does that mean. It means that your spells is a fireball spells that is a 3rd level arcane spell (which means wizards get it at lvl 5 and sorcerers at lvl 6), you can cast it from far away (thanks to the long range) and it requires a reflex half? huh?
Let's explain this in detail.

Every single monster in the game and every single character has 3 saving throws: Fortitude, Reflex and Will (willpower). Saving throws are your defence against many things including traps and most importantly spells.

In this example, our fireball spells requires a reflex saving throw. If your target manages to succeed in his save, he still takes half damage. If for example it was Reflex negates, then if our target succeeded he would take no damage! Spell, depending on the type will require a Fortitude, Reflex, Will or no saving throw at all! (this is the (in)famous magic missile spell that hits the target no matter what and deals damage!)

Now, knowing the saving throw that our spell has gives spellcasters an advantage over the monsters. You see, like player characters monsters follow the same rules more or less. So, for simplicity we will organize the monsters in 3 major categories:
Warriors: This includes monster that come close and hit really hard. They are easily reckognizable by the fact that they don't cast spells and usually come in melee. Everything carrying a two-handed weapon falls in this category.
Spellcasters:Spellcasters are enemies that cast spells. These are the easier one to spot. They move their hands and colorful lights surround them.
Ranged and dexterous melee warriors: This category is harder to spot. They are usually monsters using bows or crossbows, monster using two (dual) weapons, or monsters whose name indicates stealth/roguish ancestry (like Hobgoblin infiltrator) -These monsters go stealth too-

Okies, we pretty much covered everything. Now each of this category has different saving throws, Some good, some bad. Our aim is to cast spells that their saving throw is bad, so that our spells will have more chances of success.
Warriors: Good Fortitude Saves, Bad (or possibly medium) reflex saves, bad Will saves.
Spellcasters:Bad Fortitude Saves, Bad (or possibly medium) reflex saves, Good Will Saves.
Dexterous:Medium (possibly bad if roguish and possibly good if two-wea) Fortitude Saves, Good Reflex Saves, Bad Will saves.

This does not mean that if you cast a fireball spell on orc shamman he will always fail, or if you cast a fireball spell on a hobgoblin infiltrator he will always succeed in his save. It means that the infiltrator has a MUCH higher chance of succeeding than the spellcaster.

How can I make my spells more difficult to resist?

• Primary Stat: The bigger your primary spellcasting stat, the more Difficult the spell will be to resist [INT for wizards, CHA for sorcers and bards, WIS for Clerics, paladins, rangers]
• Spell Focus Feats: Each spell belongs to a school. By taking the spell focus feat you make spells from that school more difficult to resist.
  The schools are the following:
  Abjuration: - Contains most of the defensive and protective spells. Very few and specialized attack spells (like dispel magic and banishment). (Not really worth a spell focus feat)
  Conjuration: Creation, summoning and healing spells. Extremely few, if any offensive spells. Spells like Summon Monster and Cure Light Wounds belong to this school.
  Divination: Spells that give you knowledge (like detect secret doors). Extremely few or nonexistant attack spells.
  Enchantment: Spells that Charm or Compulse targets. The majority of these spells have charm like effects and most require a will saving throw. Numerous offensive spells. Spells like: Charm person/monster or dominate person/monster belong here.
  Evocation: This category includes spell that use energy. Most attack spells that require a reflex saving throw belong in this category. Spells like Magic missile, fireball, burning hands, etc.
  Illusion: Illusion spells create well, illusions. Spells like invisibility belong here. Not sure about the ammount of illusion spells in the game at the moment. They have both offensive and defensive ones, but I wouldn't sugget it for the spell focus feat.
  Necromancy: Spells that manipulate the forces of death, life and undeath. Some very powerful spells belong in this school including cause fear and finger of death. However most are high level spells (bigger than 5), so they are not implemented at the game at the moment.
  Transmutation: Spells that deal with matter and changing properties. These spells require most Fortitute saves. There are a lot of offensive and defensive spells. However most of the offensive spells (disintegrate) are high level (bigger than 5) and not currently in the game at the moment.
  Suggested offensive schools: Evocation and Enchanment
  Not very suggested but with future potential: Necromancy and Transmutation and Illusion (if they have a lot of spells in the game).
  NOTE: Necromancy might be good for clerics if they are offensive minded, since a lot of nasty cleric spells belong to the necromancy school.
• Higher level spells: The higher the spell lever, the more dif***ult it will be to resist. The Heighten Spell feat (metamagic) increases the level of spells too.
• Spell Penetration Feat: This feat will not be usefull in the early on. You might not even need it when you hit lvl 10. But it becomes very valuable later on. Spell Penetration gives you a better chance to overcome the spell resistance (Spell resistance comes before saves, if you fail to overcome someone's spell resistance he is not affected from the spell. Think of it like AC for spells).

It got a liiiiitttttttttllllllllllleeeeeeee bigger than it should but I hope it helps.


Kaju

[Shere]

This not in game as yet, tho thay may put it in later on.
{Spell Penetration Feat: This feat will not be usefull in the early on. You might not even need it when you hit lvl 10. But it becomes very valuable later on. Spell Penetration gives you a better chance to overcome the spell resistance (Spell resistance comes before saves, if you fail to overcome someone's spell resistance he is not affected from the spell. Think of it like AC for spells).}

PrimArch Jnr [FotGN]

[Sykur]

Awesome post.

"Spell Focus: Illusion" might come in pretty handy, as Phantasmal Killer (lvl 4 spell) requires 2 saving throw rolls (First one Will-based, and then one Fortitude-based). If the Will save is made, nothing happens, but if it fails the monster rolls for fortitude. If it makes the fortitude save, it gets 3d6 damage, if it fails the monster dies.
Pretty awesome to see Giants fall quickly to that spell

Also, Turbine should add some numbers to Spell Descriptions, like that Fireball does 1d6 per caster level up to a maximum of 10d6... might help the newbies or the forgetful deciding what spells to use.

[Kaju]

That is true, but besides Phantasmall killer there aren't that many spells that gain benefit from it. And the two saving throws of Phantasmall killer make it easier than normal to resist.
Anyway, I long for disintegrade

EDIT: I think I saw the spell penetration feat in Beta that why I posted it, could be wrong though.


Kaju

[schnuffel]

Phant Killer is one of the most powerful spells in some areas. Gargoyles rust monsters and drow scorpions, yeah even elementals die quick and clean from this.

Kaju take all those spells put them in a shard and do what you did with fireball :P

pdf appreciated excel works too

This document would be very valuable, wonder why turbine has not implemented that for the spells description.

We only get information like
Suggestion: A spell which makes an enemy suggest to fight (or something like that) Wow to much information *ironic*

[Kaju]

Posted it instead : http://community.codemasters.com/for...37#post1115137

Feel free to take any information and save them as you like. Only first level arcane spells in, will do the rest on the following days.


Kaju

[Wraithbone]

OOoooh! Nice! Thanks kaju! i just started a wizard to level 2 and had no clue about thease things ! thanks!

[hinogi]

actually i think the spell focus for some schools should be handled different. for example for abjuration school would be better if the spells get +1dc to overcome them