Real tank: Guardian vs Champion

[Marly]

Question:

Guardians and Champions are both strong and both based on melee fighting, people seem to believe that they're both 'tanks'. But now: What's the difference between them? Who's the real tank?

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Answer:

A champion, even with a shield, will never come close to the raw tanking abilities of a guardian. Neither will a captain for that matter.

Champions are very very tied to their fervour skill, and through it to pure DPS. Back in closed beta, you'd see champions equipping heavy shields a lot, but I gather that Hakai didn't like that much & tweaked the class to encourage dual wielding and 2hander use. Since then (that was months and months ago) the amount of champions that were hardcore heavy shield/tanker builds has been significantly reduced.

Champions, Guardians, and Hunters are very "pure" classes. We all do one thing and we do it very well. Hunters for single target/ranged DPS, Champions for AoE/melee DPS, Guardians for tanking. Champions and Captains can make a viable offtank in a pinch, but the Guardian is still going to be the best damage sponge. Turbine really has been trying to wall off the tank class & I think that is good because blurring the lines and giving anybody else "crossover" skills that would make them near equal to a guardian would kill the class & negatively effect the game.

Why is this?:

As most of you will know the champion gives up all form of defense for his increased dps. Otherwise the champions defensive abilities are limited to this:

Sudden Defence
Level: 18
You lose all Fervour and enter a defensive stance, which increases your parry and evade rates.
Requires at least 1 Fervour
Removes 5 from Fervour
Adds 1.3% to Evade Chance
Adds 1.3% to Parry Chance
Lasts for 30 s
Recovery Time: 5 m

Meanwhile the guardian at creation has access to this attack which will always be up in combat:

Guardian's Ward
Your great skill enables you to strengthen your defences for a short time.
Main hand weapon +1 damage
Adds 4.0% to Parry Chance
Adds 4.0% to Block Chance
Lasts for 10 s
Power Cost: 4
Recovery Time: 3 s
Max Range: 3

He then goes through his career adding numerous abilities that deal with gaining threat, protecting fellows, or buffing block/parry (such as always-on toggle), focusing very little on offense. The champion picks up many AOE skills and attack skills, focusing very little on defense. It's a pretty simple comparison looking at the skill descriptions here:

http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Champion_Skills
http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Guardian_Skills

The champion will never be able to keep mobs off of the healer with the reliability of the guardian. The champion will never be able to tank the elite mobs with the efficiency of the guardian. The champions primary role is melee aoe dps and main assist/off-tank and frankly there isn't much room to deviate from that.

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Hope this provides enough information.

[Bifur]

Bullsh*t, theres only one real tank and thats Guardian, Champions are over-powered DPS'ers.

[Mordikay]

I won't even go into detail here. I can out tank a champion going full out that is 5 lvls above me with no effort.

[Amano]

Champion is no "light tank", champion is a DD.
He can be a secondary tank to tank an additional add until the group is finished with the other three mobs the guardian tanks.
The guardian can take the aggro away from any champion in a blink of an eye.

[Arrain]

Champion is not designed as a tank, and in no way a challenge to the guardian for the spot. The champion does however have some basic tanking abilites (A taunt, -heavy- shield use at level 30 and Sudden Defence, etc. Even a trait for increased threat). If a guardian is available then I'm not in doubt, the guardian will always be the better tank unless the player behind is truly terrible compared to the player of the champion. Champion can probably tank easy material with few problems, only requiring the group to be a lot more focused on picking their target and firing on it alone. It will be slower than with a guardian, it will be more fragile, but it will work. If we see anything in raids that resembles what I've seen from other MMOs then I expect the Champion to be able to off-tank, and this is not a challenge to the guardians, its a way to let groups be created with different setups. If you're a guardian short for off-tanking, then no problem, a Champion can just grab his shield and the right traits and off you go.

[RingMaster]

Originally Posted by Bifur

Bullsh*t, theres only one real tank and thats Guardian, Champions are over-powered DPS'ers.

Well, to be honest in this game there really isn't any proper pvp except for that Monster Play, so who cares if Champion is overpowered.

And Guardian is the main tank.

[Heyesey]

Originally Posted by Amano_Companion

Champion is no "light tank", champion is a DD.
He can be a secondary tank to tank an additional add until the group is finished with the other three mobs the guardian tanks.
The guardian can take the aggro away from any champion in a blink of an eye.

So, he is just about the absolute perfect definition of a light tank, and yet you insist on saying he isn't one.

What's that about? And why (not just you, but most everyone who replied) are you all agreeing with the OP and insulting him for being an idiot at one and the same time?

[Radorin - Evernight]

Whats the difference between light tank, secondary tank (if no second guardian is in FLL), support tank? Just names. Champions can tank just not so good or rather so long as guardians. Personally being a guardian I feel relieved if there is someone who can take off me additional mob that spawned suddenly, moved toward our fighting group and was agroed or was triggered accidently and runs from behind to get minstrel. This way I dont have to move to intercept this new target risking that my already agroed will find new targets and instead of clean by book fight we end up in chaotic mess. So imho if there is no second guardian in party, Champion should be assigned to watch after rear and counteract any surprises for a short time, agroeing them and pulling toward guardian.

[Elecktra]

In addition to the superior aggro holding abilities of a Guardian v's A Champs dps agro a Guardian also takes far less healing in this situation. This can be ok in some circumstances but not when the going gets tough.

[Elecktra]

Originally Posted by Heyesey

So, he is just about the absolute perfect definition of a light tank, and yet you insist on saying he isn't one.

What's that about? And why (not just you, but most everyone who replied) are you all agreeing with the OP and insulting him for being an idiot at one and the same time?

You can also say therefore any class is a light tank and that a Guardian is a light DPS's and AOE'er. All depends what you mean by medium,light, super light .. off tanker etc A Guardian is a superior tank by far and most others classes are capable of keeping another mob busy/off-tanked for a period of time, either by direct tanking, tanking with pets, traps or CC methods etc ... bit of an anal thread if u ask me. Hope we can get away from the cookie builds, enforced roles etc in this game ... if it works it works.