This is the End of F-1 game!

[esspee]

The U.S. couldn't even hold onto an F1 race - why in the hell would you aim a franchise sports title at a demographics that is obviously a low % of that sports fanbase?

It would be like EA putting all their effort into marketing their NASCAR 09 game in the UK. Looking at typical UK sales data for the race genre and trying to mold NASCAR games into something for the Brits while disregarding ideas and desires of the NASCAR fanbase in the U.S.

Franchise sports are different beasts. They are typically not games that reach way beyond the demographic fanbase of the sport - no matter how arcade or sim or highly rated they are.

Actually NASCAR 09 is a bad example because some Brits might like all the features EA has put in that game including full blown pit stops, damage, flags, paint shop, practice, qualifying, safety cars and extensive car setups. Funny how CM market research seems to contradict all of these features being pointless in a NA released title.

I think CM need to fire their marketing team because their data seems to include PGR and NFS titles only. I don't think they bothered to examine the two best selling racers on either platform which are Forza and GT which are both decidedly 'sim'. Nor did they look at any of your other franchises like Madden, NBA, MLB etc where the fanbase demands games that embody and encompass as much of the real to life sport as possible. Another thing that seems to have escaped them is that a lot of these franchise sports have more than a single entrant - a sim game or two and then titles dedicated to being total arcade stuff as well. They don't try to mix the two into a single game thinking it is possible to please everyone because all that ends up doing is compromising everything and pleasing no one.

I really wish EA had gotten this game. Their last F1 games where not that bad and I think overall they already went down this path that CM is headed down now and realized it didn't work. It seems good at first but its a shallow business plan that quickly stops paying dividends and starts paying bad PR.

I think the best thing we can all do is make sure not to buy GRID. Don't support that drivel so their marketing department has no success to rest their case on when giving their input in what will sell an F1 title.

[johncode]

Originally Posted by RedBull_Racing

so am i
for god sake codies i dont want an F1 game using some EGO engine that was made for sedan racers/drifters.
Open wheelers have completely different physics and handling to Sedans
by short cutting your way through development your turning this game into crap arcadism that is way off to realistic simulation
AND SIMULATION IS WHAT WE PETROL-HEADS WANT
we want to fine tune every part of the suspension, we want to be able to lock brakes in the 1st corner of monaco!
We dont want to be able to drift around a corner in an F1 car

Do you even know what a game engine is?

Read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_engine#Overview

Game engines are highly adaptable bits of programming. The Ego engine is fully capable of full sim and is not just designed to simulate sedans.
Ego has its origins in the Neon engine which was used on DIRT and will also be used on Operation Flashpoint 2: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neon_%28game_engine%29

I don't like the whole arcadey direction either but i'm not one of those people that plays rFactor. For me, RD3's 'Sim' setting got the balance perfect between realism and playability and for the sim racers there was the 'Pro Sim' setting.

EA are doing something similar with Nascar 09 where theres 'Normal' handling and 'Pro' handling and you can add or remove driver aids as you wish. IMO that is the direction that Codemasters shouldn have gone with Race Driver, not the arcadey way of GRID.

GT and Forza are sims (in the console sense), but they are biased towards road cars. RD3 complemented those two well by providing a similar type of gameplay but centred around racing cars.

[Varsh]

Very true about the engine though maybe he worded it a little incorrectly? Only he can answer that though from my interpretation I think he means that CM are more accustomed to programming for closed wheeled rather than open wheeled racing. CM have some experience with open wheeled racing but not much, but that experience will at least help to an extent, they have a good few years experience on the engine so they'll be able to work that out fine.

I'm going to try out RD3 (or was it RD2 I have, I forget) and see how the game was.

[johncode]

My responses in bold

Originally Posted by Zedux

Q: Congratulations on securing the Formula One rights. Why do you think Codemasters were successful?

Rod Cousens: we may not be the biggest, but I do think we are the best.

(good way to start!!!)

Q: The first game will be released next year. Talk us briefly through the development process that will be taking place over the coming months?

RC: for us is Codemasters’ EGO Engine. This is what drives DiRT™ and GRID™, so its pedigree. It typically takes us two years to develop such a game, but a lot of the assets have already been created - we have a number of the tracks because they already exist in GRID™, and we have the basics of the car dynamics and handling.

(lol so you guys are gonna use the same physics and game play of these games?? Are you out of your mind??)

I refer to my post above


Q: What lessons have you learnt from developing previous driving games and how will they help you with the Formula One project?

RC: The real context of racing is to make it an absolute adrenalin rush for the consumer when they are playing, a real fix. The way we look at it now is akin to a TV broadcast. We want that top-down, wheel-to-wheel racing experience that nothing else can give - we’ve got to get that to the consumer and we believe we can do it.

(Ok my bother spending time on the game just change the grid car to F-1 cars and give the hard-core arcadie players what they want! My Gosh we are talking about F-1 not some hit-me-if-you-can game! You don't drive wheel to wheel in F-1, can some one please tell this guy this!!!)

RC is just sputing PR guff there.


Q: Presumably you will be working closely not just with Formula One Management, but also with the Formula One teams, the circuits etc?

RC: What we want to do is forge a very close relationship with the teams and to be what the Americans would describe as ‘joined at the hip’. If this game is to be authentic we will want to get very close to the teams in all sorts of areas, recognise the integrity of what they have and hopefully replicate that in the game - we won’t let them down.

(Can someone tell this guy F-1 is completely away from America style! He doens't know a thing about the F-1 World LOL)

Now this is ********. He said that he wanted to form a close relationship with the teams, using an American phrase. THERE IS NO MENTION OF BIASING THE GAME TO THE US MARKET OR GIVING IT AN AMERICAN STYLE


Q: What new features can we expect to see on the game?

RC: What we’re trying to achieve here is to take Formula One gaming around the world and in terms of the technological aspect, that’s largely related to online developments. Another thing is car damage, or as we call it, deformation. This is a real racing experience and we all know what people want (and expect) - if there is a collision and that car spins off the track, through the gravel, into the tyres, they want to see that actually happening.

(this is so basic it's like saying ok.. I wake up and open my eyes!! lol he talks as if it's a big thing. Well I know how this game is gonna look LOL)

RD is just trumpeting Codemaster's expertise in damage modelling, nothing more.

Q: Some F1 games of the past have been rather hard for the beginner to get to grips with - perhaps understandable, given how hard it is to drive a Formula One car. How will you cater for both ends of the spectrum - the novice player at one end and the hardened petrol-head at the other?

RC: Yes, simulation versus arcade. Codemasters’ history in TOCA Race Driver has been very heavily weighted towards simulation, appealing to the real hardcore fan - be they V8 supporters in Australia, DTM fans in Germany etc, But if you want to take the game to an even wider audience, particularly the United States (for us the largest gaming market in the world), then you have to appeal to a mass audience and so we blend the simulation with an awful lot of arcade elements too.

(this is too much... I won't say much but please can someone tell this guy DTM run on V8 engines as well he doens't know even that blahhh! I know Codemasters has now being running on 100% profit policy but to say it so openly wow one step forward!! Plus arcadie with simulation this is gonna be great like Grid LOL)

He makes no mention of what engines DTM run. Try learning English to a better standard before slagging someone off. We have no idea what the sim/arcade balance is going to be like in the new F1 game so lets at least wait until we get a demo.


The issue people have today is time. This is time-based entertainment and the one thing we all know is that time is constrained. People want to be able to pick up a game, do whatever you do very quickly, post their times up on a leader board and then go off and misbehave elsewhere.

(not much to say on this I think the game is ready already just waiting the release date LOL)

Now you are just talking out of your arse

Q: So the online element will be an increasingly important part of the game, helping in effect to reinforce the global Formula One community?

RC: It may take five years around the world because of broadband penetration, but ultimately online is it and hopefully we can be an integral part of Formula One as they branch out and open up new markets. For example, you could speak to drivers during practice and ask them, ‘how are the tyres, how is the suspension?

(I don't know in which world you live MR. RC but I am sure not in the F-1 one!!! You speak like a Kid who doens't know reality LOL)

More arse talking

Q: An increasing number of gamers are playing on High Definition displays - what challenges and opportunities does that give you as game developers?

RC: We are in the HD era and visualisation - particularly with identifiable aspects such as drivers, teams etc - is one of the challenges facing in broadcast media today, in that it also creates a lot of flaws. It’s down to minute particles. We can even differentiate different types of paint that are used on the car, so it’s that defined and obviously visual flaws are very evident if you don’t get it right. Those are the challenges - it’s very art intensive and what we want to do is make sure it’s faithfully replicated and it appears almost as a glass-like vision before you.

(great answer... blah blah blah and didn't answer lol... had to say "we at coddie don't have an engine that can run on full hd plus it takes time so lets make like Grid")

We have no idea what the game is going to be like. You seem to be judging a game thats not due out until next year

P.S I just pointed out some issues but you can see that there's much more to it than I just pointed out!!! Well this game is gonna be great!! Can it beat Sega Revo??!!LOL

Your repeated use of the phrase LOL shows you as the immature child you are. Grow up and get a life beyond computer games. I did it, so can you.

[JEC]

To start off, I'm a Brit who happens to have lived in the US for quite some time, so for the last several years I have not been able to play a console F1 game since they were not released in the US (last game was F1 2001 for xbox - I never had a playstation, and I am too cheap to buy a racing wheel for my pc).
Since a console F1 game was not released in the US for many years, this obviously points to the conclusion that marketing Formula 1 for the American market is a waste of money.

In Dirt and in Grid, one thing that I have noticed in the Americanisation of these series is using American voices (getting rid of Nicky Grist for a rally game when the WRC isn't even broadcasted in the US). I really cannot see this fitting in Formula 1, there are no longer any American teams or drivers, Ford and BAR have been gone for a while, and Scott Speed didn't last very long - also there isn't even a US Grand Prix anymore. Just as in the past two iterations you have produced, I can't see the relevance or rationality in using an American voice for the team notifications in an F1 game.

From what I have experienced, most Americans (I am generalising so please correct me) seem to care about speed over finesse and technical innovation - which seems to justify oval circuits and stock cars opposed to more dynamic circuits and engineering marvels such as F1 cars.
When I ask most people what they look for in a car, they respond by looking for a lot of horsepower - a lot of power. The mindset for cars and racing is completely different.
This time, you're not just selling a racing game - I can understand the reasoning for changing Colin McRae and Toca in Dirt and Grid for the US market, but Formula 1 just does not fit into this rationality - you cannot Americanise an F1 game or it will not be a true F1 experience.

I really hope Codemasters understands the real priorities. Focus on making an authentic F1 experience rather than focus on how you will change Formula 1 to meet a specific, uninterested market (I don't see the need to bring up the simulation vs arcade debate as it has already been addressed - I will add that I think Simbin does a great job in adding presets/options to give a more casual experience with a core simulation engine).

Please, I beg you, focus on the marketing aspect AFTER you've created the perfect F1 experience. Formula 1 is Formula 1 - there cannot be any alterations to this sport, if you do change the core structure of a primarily European sport to Americanise it, you might as well forget about labelling it as an F1 game, and just call it open-wheel racing and throw in some oval shaped tracks.


PS - I still loved Dirt, I just really want the perfect F1 game.

[RedBull_Racing]

Originally Posted by johncode

My responses in bold
Your repeated use of the phrase LOL shows you as the immature child you are. Grow up and get a life beyond computer games. I did it, so can you.

Who the do you think you are? the prime minister?

[RedBull_Racing]

Zedux is a good guy. i dont know him personally but i know hes a good bloke like the rest of the F1 gaming community!
what gives you the right Johncode to waltz into this community and fire blindly at other users. If i was a moderator on this forum your account would be deleted before my kettle boiled

[Zedux]

Originally Posted by johncode

My responses in bold
Your repeated use of the phrase LOL shows you as the immature child you are. Grow up and get a life beyond computer games. I did it, so can you.

Just because you are still a child who thinks have grown up doesn't mean people are like you! Do you wanna control people's emotion?? Ok so just continue with your pornie dolls!! them you control jerk not me!!!

[Varsh]

JEC I couldn't have said it any better other than a slight grammatical error. I think you meant to write this:

I can understand the reasoning for changing Colin McRae and Toca in Dirt and Grid for the US market, but Formula 1 just doesn't fit into this rationality - you cannot Americanise an F1 game or it will not be a true F1 experience.

Bolded and corrected . You pretty much have hit the nail on the head there, that was so clearly put forward that I don't think anyone could have said it any better.

If CM are really looking at these topics then we should have a reply rather than leaving us in the dark.

[JEC]

Oops, it was late last night - thanks for correcting my mistake Varsh.

I wouldn't be so worried if this game was announced after the last Colin Mcrae and Toca game, but it comes in light of a large departure from those traditional IPs into something completely different.
If the people at Codemasters really are Formula 1 fans, then I am confident that they will make a great and authentic game (I have to stay optimistic, I am desperate for an F1 game).