Paladin Template question

Greetings,

Here is my forecast for my Human paladin build (it will be my 5th attempt lol) :

Initial Stats
---------------
STR 14 (+0 stats raise) or (+2 stat raise)
DEX 10
CON 12
INT 10
WIS 14
CHA 15 (+5 stats+enh raise) or (+3 enh raise)


Level Progression -- Ability Inc -- Skills
--------------------------------------------
1 Paladin -- -- Diplomacy^4(=6), Heal^4(=6), Intimidate^2(=4)
2 Paladin -- -- Diplomacy^1(=7), Heal^1(=7), Intimidate^0.5(=4.5)
3 Paladin -- -- Diplomacy^1(=8), Heal^1(=8), Intimidate^0.5(=5)
4 Paladin -- CHA -- Diplomacy^1(=10), Heal^1(=9), Intimidate^0.5(=6.5)
5 Paladin -- -- Diplomacy^1(=11), Heal^1(=10), Intimidate^0.5(=7)
6 Paladin -- -- Diplomacy^1(=12), Heal^1(=11), Intimidate^0.5(=7.5)
7 Paladin -- -- Diplomacy^1(=13), Heal^1(=12), Intimidate^0.5(=8)
8 Paladin -- CHA -- Diplomacy^1(=14), Heal^1(=13), Intimidate^0.5(=8.5)
9 Paladin -- -- Diplomacy^1(=15), Heal^1(=14), Intimidate^0.5(=9)
10 Paladin -- -- Diplomacy^1(=16), Heal^1(=15), Intimidate^0.5(=9.5)


Feat Selection
----------------
1 Shield Mastery, Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
2
3 Improved Shield Mastery
4
5
6 Improved Shield Bash
7
8
9 Exotic Weapon Proficiency: B*****D Sword
10


Enhancement Selection
-----------------------
1 Paladin's Action Boost I, Paladin's Grace I, Paladin's Rally, Human Versatility I
2 Paladin's Charisma I, Paladin's Grace I, Resistance of Good I, Bulwark of Good I
3 Bulwark of Good I, Paladin's Charisma I, Paladin's Action Boost II, Paladin's Grace I
4 Bulwark of Good I, Paladin's Charisma I, Resistance of Good I, Extra Lay on Hands I
5 Bulwark of Good I, Paladin's Charisma II, Resistance of Good I, Extra Lay on Hands I
6 Bulwark of Good II, Paladin's Charisma II, Resistance of Good II, Extra Lay on Hands I
7 Bulwark of Good II, Paladin's Charisma II, Resistance of Good II, Extra Lay on Hands I
8 Bulwark of Good II, Extra Lay on Hands I, Paladin's Charisma III, Resistance of Good II
9 Bulwark of Good III, Paladin's Charisma III, Resistance of Good III, Extra Lay on Hands I
10 Bulwark of Good III, Paladin's Charisma III, Resistance of Good III, Extra Lay on Hands II

My question is :
Is is worth raising :
- CHA to 20 via +2 stat/level raise and +3enh raise or
- CHA to 12 via +3 enh raise and str +2 stat raise ?

Are B Sword quite easy to find at late levels ?

Any comment on this template any advice ? I am open to all criticism ^^

Thanks in advance

Nemeos Constantine

[Meervraat]

This looks like a solid defensive paladin! You can make him even more solid by imagining what your character will do most: draw attention and live through it by using shield and high saves. You can get even better at this job by:

-Taking an intelligence of 8. You'll get less skillpoints, but you don't need Diplomacy. Mages will die if you use this skill. Heal and Intimidate are good to put you points in. No need to be smart if you're wise. You might put dexterity to 12, for example.

-In your job, you do damage only to draw attention. Consider swapping shield bash and B-sword proficiency for Cleave. A nice technique you can use then is using a twohanded weapon and Cleave to damage a few monsters, then switch to shields again to hold their damage.

-Misc tip: put points in Use Magic Device. Your charisma will be quite high, so you can use wands in a pinch with about 50% succes. Another option is to get 1 level of sorc, this enables you to use Arcane wands with a level equal to your total character level, and get more spellpoints.

-Edit: Thorsson points out: " Can't get Improved Shield Mastery until level 8. Not shown in game info, but confirmed by players."

Ok ok Second try thanks to Meervraat :

Initial Stats
---------------
STR 14 -> 16
DEX 12
CON 12
INT 8
WIS 14
CHA 15 -> 18


Level Progression -- Ability Inc -- Skills
--------------------------------------------
1 Paladin -- -- Heal^4(=6), Intimidate^2(=4)
2 Paladin -- -- Heal^1(=7), Use Magic Device^0.5(=2.5)
3 Paladin -- -- Concentration^1(=2), Heal^1(=8)
4 Paladin -- STR -- Heal^1(=9), Use Magic Device^0.5(=3)
5 Paladin -- -- Concentration^1(=3), Heal^1(=10)
6 Paladin -- -- Concentration^1(=4), Heal^1(=11)
7 Paladin -- -- Concentration^1(=5), Heal^1(=12)
8 Paladin -- STR -- Concentration^1(=6), Heal^1(=13)
9 Paladin -- -- Heal^1(=14), Use Magic Device^0.5(=3.5)
10 Paladin -- -- Heal^1(=15), Use Magic Device^0.5(=4)


Feat Selection
----------------
1 Shield Mastery, Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
2
3 Power Attack or shield Mastery
4
5
6 Cleave or power Attack
7
8
9 Shield Mastery or Cleave
10


Enhancement Selection
-----------------------
1 Paladin's Action Boost I, Paladin's Grace I, Human Versatility I, Extra Smite Evil I
2 Paladin's Grace I, Bulwark of Good I, Paladin's Charisma I, Paladin's Action Boost I
3 Bulwark of Good I, Paladin's Charisma I, Extra Lay on Hands I, Resistance of Good I
4 Bulwark of Good I, Extra Lay on Hands I, Resistance of Good I, Paladin's Charisma I
5 Extra Lay on Hands I, Bulwark of Good I, Resistance of Good I, Paladin's Charisma II
6 Bulwark of Good II, Extra Lay on Hands I, Paladin's Charisma II, Resistance of Good II
7 Bulwark of Good II, Extra Lay on Hands I, Paladin's Charisma II, Resistance of Good II
8 Bulwark of Good II, Extra Lay on Hands I, Paladin's Charisma III, Resistance of Good II
9 Paladin's Charisma III, Bulwark of Good III, Extra Lay on Hands I, Resistance of Good III
10 Paladin's Charisma III, Bulwark of Good III, Extra Lay on Hands II, Resistance of Good III

My Feeling :
- Solid Tank that should draw aggro by damaging the mobs (should have pb holding aggro on bosses ?)
- Good all-around in group, can be either tank or damage dealer if wielding a 2H
- Questionmark on : Use magic devices, how much should I throw in in order to be partially efficient ?
- Question about switching weapons : is there an effective way to switch from 2H to 1h+shield without using 2 steps ? (1h then Shield ?)
- Will damage by cleave and 2h draw enough aggro to hold the mobs instead of Intimidate ?


- Main Pb : I have to find a good balance between Heal/Intimidate/Concentration/Use Magic Device -_-" SO I would maybe get rid of Power Attack and Cleave, Focus on Heal+Intimidate+Use Magic Device and Shield MAstery->Improved SHield Bash->Improve Shield Mastery+B-Sword '

Any inputs for that second try ?

Thanks in advance

Edit : Maybe will I first take Shield mastery ^^

[Opferlamm]

I had no clue about Paladins too when I started this one but it seems he´s doing a good Job. ... but it is just a fortress nothing else. If this one stands in a door nothing hostile gets in or out as long as I don´t wish it.


At lvl 6 he´s now

Str 12
Dex 10
CON 10
INT 10
WIS 14
CHA 22 by items and skills

I think there´s no need for Dex 12 since you won´t use ranged often and you´ll can compensate it with a fullplate.

I asume it is better to go with an intelligence of 8 but it seems like you get better rewards if you have a high diplomay skill (or I´m just a real lucky person) It is useless infight though.
The high charisma is a blast since it also enhances your saves. (my saves are often as good as those of the rest fo the party together...
Alos I can indimiate almost every enemy which is my second favroite skill after trip.

So far I would start a new Pala with:
STR 10
DEX 10
CON 14
INT 8
WIS 14
CHA 16
I don´t know if that fits but since I´m german I can´t log to check.

My feats are enhance AC+2 Saves+2 Skillboost (for enhancing the fortress) and charisma.

With my profency in Towershield improved shieldblocking and toughness I´m almost ever the last man standing.

Blocking isn´t that easy but if you are familiar with it you can protect every member of your party by choosing a good position. (This needs a good cleric or bard though, course attracting every single opponent may hurt.)

Most fights against mobs without mages can be solved by hitting every opponent to draw attentinon while the rest of the party slays em. Due to your aura most fights will be solved without wounded . Bosses can be hold almost unlimeted time If you use hit and run (while shieldbashing) htem until the party can concentrate on them.
Mages can be tipped easyly.

A great danger is to go alone. Not for you though but to your party if they they underestimate your aura - Most Parties underestimate a Paladin untill he´s gone.

With a good buffer and a backupshield he´s quite a killer but if I want to make best for the Party he almost never scores a kill (due to attention drawing by hitting the same target almost never twice)

[Meervraat]

Originally Posted by Opferlamm

I think there´s no need for Dex 12 since you won´t use ranged often and you´ll can compensate it with a fullplate.

True! I see a lot of paladins with 10 dexterity, there's even people who train one with 10 or less constitution. 12 Dex would be my favorite, though, but that's because of my playstyle.

Originally Posted by Opferlamm

I asume it is better to go with an intelligence of 8 but it seems like you get better rewards if you have a high diplomay skill (or I´m just a real lucky person) It is useless infight though.

There's a thread in the American boards, where Turbine's devs searched the code for this. They didn't find a link between diplomacy and chest drops!

I guess there's always some goodness to get if you get 10 intelligence, your choice! Consider spot, for instance, a few points will make you see a lot more hidden mob.

About the Use Magic Device: I'm afraid you'd need to put one point per level if you would even want to be partially effective. If you keep it maxed, you'd have 6,5 ranks at level 10. Now, you'd have about 10 ranks with your charisma score. The easiest wands have a difficulty check of 20, so you'd be about 50% effective. More like a gimmick.

Originally Posted by Opferlamm

The high charisma is a blast since it also enhances your saves. (my saves are often as good as those of the rest fo the party together...

Agreed! People would choose charisma over constitution and live.

I'd favour Settha's build over Opferlamms, but that's just because I like damage dealers more than tanks. And until 14, strength is cheap anyway...

[Thorsson]

It's all very well being able to soak up magical attacks, but you also have to be able to soak up physical and deal out some damage too. Therefore I would see a build which puts all points into Charisma as being too one-dimensional.

Let's for arguments sake say you have Con 10, Dex 12 and Wis at 14, your saves at level 10, with absolutely no bonus, will be 7/4/5. With Cha 18 that makes them 11/8/9, Add Resistance of Good and you're at 14/11/12. That seems plenty good enough to me, but if you want more take the Paladin's Grace enhancement - cheaper than 4 points in Charisma...

Your choice then is 2H route (in which case 2H fighting + improved are must haves) or go more traditional sword & board. If the latter I would consider strongly taking one level of Fighter. This would gain you an extra feat (Toughness!) plus Tower Shield proficiency.

[Opferlamm]

There's a thread in the American boards, where Turbine's devs searched the code for this. They didn't find a link between diplomacy and chest drops!

with the rewards I didn´t mean the drops but the rewards getting from NSC´s.
e.g. I ogt a +3 Beyshik? Battleaxe where others got +1 wooden Tower schiled at the max. But start an aprotiate? post to have that cleared I think there would plenty of people interested in this.

Another question :

Beginning with these stats :

STR 14
DEX 10
CON 14
INT 8
WIS 14
CHA 15

What would be best at level 10 ?

STR 14
DEX 10
CON 12
INT 8
WIS 14
CHA 20 (+2 at 4th and 8th and +3with enh)

or

STR 16 (+2 at 4th and 8th)
DEX 10
CON 14
INT 8
WIS 14
CHA 18 (+3enh)

or

STR 14
DEX 10
CON 16 (+2 at 4th and 8th)
INT 8
WIS 14
CHA 18 (+3enh)

I am hesitating between the 14str/20cha and the 16str/18cha ...
Is 20 CHA woth having over 16str ?

Still wondering ^^

[Opferlamm]

My Opinion is still That a Paladin shouldn´t be the damage Dealer of the group, but requires still a good Strength to aquire the attention of the enemies since they will ignore you if you don´t hit them. That´s why I think a Str of 12 is enough if you got so. buffing you.. (str 16 then) And your actionboost can compensate the accuracy of your hits.

If youuseyour skills often (lay on hands intimidate and the turn undead)b you will go best with otion one.(but how to lwer a con of 14 at lvl 1 to 12 at lvl 10?`)

If you just want to be a tank blocking the way giving your team the aura bonuses and blocking meleefighters option three will be fine course your Hp will skyrocket (consider con 15 at lvl one since you will get more hp at 4 then and also feat toughness at one)

If you want to be a damagedealer there is no way past the last otion though you should consider to start with str of 15 or 16 and raise charisma or better wisdom later on. Maybe you should invest your skills in spot and ballance then too. But I assume taking a lvl in fighter would be better then.

[Meervraat]

Originally Posted by Settha

I am hesitating between the 14str/20cha and the 16str/18cha ...
Is 20 CHA woth having over 16str ?

Still wondering ^^

I think so, because you're going to be a defensive type player. 14 STR should be enough!

And I really think you'll be doing fine, every build has it's strengths and weaknesses, so just play and you'll learn what actions will keep you alive.