DPS -breakdown

Gethalon · 29-05-2007, 10:24 PM

Hi this is my first post on this forum so plz be gentle^^.
Iv seen alot of questions on the champion forum regarding dual wield vs 2h and if aoe is worth anything and i thought i would take the time to answer some of these questions to the best of my understanding of the class:

2H- There are different pros and cons to the use of 2H.
Pros-The 2H is usually very slow and therefore gains more bonus effect of our 150% weapon dmg attack since the top and minimum dmg is way higher than a 1h. Since we have some skillz that doesnt get trigged by our auto attack and therefore makes the weapon react faster than its speed was intended (wich is good). Other than that a 2H is the best weapon for AoE and you will never run out of power with this weapon either.
Cons- The 2H has a much lower dps (damage pr sec) than dual wield wich means u CANNOT let out the same ammount of damage with a 2H against single targets than you can with dual wield.

Dual Wield:
Pros- As stated before the dual wield gives you more single target dps than the 2H (wich is good

). Since we do have some skillz that are triggered by our auto attacks you will be able to get a load of these fired off way faster than with the 2H. The tactic to dual wield is to have a rather fast off hand (i tend to use a sword for the +hit bonus) and a slower weapon in main hand to get more out of your weapon skillz.
Cons- THe dual wields major problem is realy the power cost. Since the weapons are faster you will proc more skillz and your power bar will be emptied way faster wich will realy start to show in the later end game where you might go up against bosses that takes alot longer time than what you are used to. It also has a little slower AoE base dmg, this is however not the biggest problem since you will have to attacks instead of one attack with dual wield (mh oh attacks).

I personaly use dual wield but i guess its up to the persons playstyle to decide. Hoped it helped some ppl out there decide for what they are gonna pick

gl out there "Gethalon"

RocKtheCasbaH · 31-05-2007, 12:51 PM

I prefer dual wield but find myself using big 2-handers more an more. Currently using a 2H axe at the mo and it kills so much quicker, especially using AOE. Sparr'ed a few times with both set-ups and the big 2 hander wins hands down every time.

The 2 Hander is Dolthanc 20.4 dps with 75 max damage(I think), the duals are a 17.7 dps sword and a 16.2 dps axe both with around 45 max damage.

It's the instant attacks that make the difference.

WIGUM · 31-05-2007, 01:31 PM

im still pretty much undecided over a 21.4dps sword + 22.1 dps sword or a 25.6dps greatsword. i have no idea which one is better as they all seem to kill at roughly the same speed.
Any ideas on which i should use?

Gethalon · 31-05-2007, 09:59 PM

Well Wigum since your two swords would have a dps equal to strangely enough 21,4+22,1=43,5 dps your dual wield swords would defenetly be better in the pure dps using no skills at all..
However if you like me use a combo of wild attack/swift strike and relentless strike you will see a dmg reduction using dual wield since the skill is determaned by your weapon dmg and since your mh (22,1<-guessing thats your mh

) will have an average dmg of 22,1x2=44,2 dmg and your oh 21,4x2=42,8 dmg you will with one combo doing one of each strike deal a total dmg of:
44,2+7+42,8+44,2+12+1,5x44,2+122+42,8=381,3 dmg.

While for your 2H great sword would have an average attack of 25,6x2,8=71,68dmg wich would give a total combo dmg of:
71,68+9+71,68+16+1,5x71,68+164=439,9dmg

As you might notice the dmg for the combo with the great sword is alittle higher than that of the dual wield but it is indeed hard to determan what is the best of the two. If you as a meare speculation would say that you could performe a combo of this type every 5 sec wich is not impossible you would find the dps of both choices for weapons to be:

Dual wield (43,5dps+381,3dmg/5)=119,7dps
2H sword (25,6+439,9/5)=113,4dps

So there you have it your dual wield combo deals slightly more dmg than your great sword however i cant at the moment confirm that you wount miss more with the dual wield combo wich is the case in other mmorpg games but if you dont miss at all the above calculations would be correct. This was btw calculated from a skill lvl of a lvl 40 champion. Hope it answered your question

Rydier · 31-05-2007, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gethalon

Well Wigum since your two swords would have a dps equal to strangely enough 21,4+22,1=43,5 dps your dual wield swords would defenetly be better in the pure dps using no skills at all..
However if you like me use a combo of wild attack/swift strike and relentless strike you will see a dmg reduction using dual wield since the skill is determaned by your weapon dmg and since your mh (22,1<-guessing thats your mh

) will have an average dmg of 22,1x2=44,2 dmg and your oh 21,4x2=42,8 dmg you will with one combo doing one of each strike deal a total dmg of:
44,2+7+42,8+44,2+12+1,5x44,2+122+42,8=381,3 dmg.

While for your 2H great sword would have an average attack of 25,6x2,8=71,68dmg wich would give a total combo dmg of:
71,68+9+71,68+16+1,5x71,68+164=439,9dmg

As you might notice the dmg for the combo with the great sword is alittle higher than that of the dual wield but it is indeed hard to determan what is the best of the two. If you as a meare speculation would say that you could performe a combo of this type every 5 sec wich is not impossible you would find the dps of both choices for weapons to be:

Dual wield (43,5dps+381,3dmg/5)=119,7dps
2H sword (25,6+439,9/5)=113,4dps

So there you have it your dual wield combo deals slightly more dmg than your great sword however i cant at the moment confirm that you wount miss more with the dual wield combo wich is the case in other mmorpg games but if you dont miss at all the above calculations would be correct. This was btw calculated from a skill lvl of a lvl 40 champion. Hope it answered your question

Sorry, but calculating raw damage in a combo, then drawing DPS conclusions for weapons and attacks with different speeds is just stupid. (Notice the Per Second part of that?)Also, note another thread on this forum, Two hander vs. Dual Wield for a Champion, which explains that dps while dual wielding isn't really dps_sword1 + dps_sword2.

Doriando · 01-06-2007, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RocKtheCasbaH

The 2 Hander is Dolthanc 20.4 dps with 75 max damage(I think), the duals are a 17.7 dps sword and a 16.2 dps axe both with around 45 max damage.

You are using a 2Her which has almost 3dps more. Equal level 2Hers & 1Hers differ about 1.5dps. In my midtwenties I see a lvl 25 2Her doing 13.5dps and the lvl 25 1Hers are at 12.2 or something (don't pin me on it).

The 1Hers that you *could* wield are probably 18+ dps, so that is why you are doing more dps with your 2Her. Try to find equal 1Hers to your 2Her and try to compare then again.

At my current level, 2Hers do 14.5dps. My 1Hers are 12.8dps. However, I got a 16.4dps quest reward 2Her. A very high dps difference, so I am using that now.

Gethalon · 01-06-2007, 09:24 AM

well its hard at the moment to make calculations for dmg with weapons since theres so limited access to how the speed and dmg works on 1h-2h fx do we miss more with dual wield? or does a 1h do less dmg in oh? in my oppenion it doesnt it actualy does the same dmg wich at the moment makes dual wield better. And the calculations are not stupid i was trying to give an examble of the two weapon types doing a similar combo over the same period of time. If we should have done it correct the dual wield would have surpassed the 2H even more since its faster and therefore are able to make more special attacks.

Swither · 01-06-2007, 11:39 AM

Hmm, interesting debate.

I have up till now preferred to use a 2-h, but I tried DW for a few hours to see.

What I did notice is that the DW set-up seemed to miss or be parried/evaded more than the 2h set-up, but that maybe because of the number of potential attacks that could miss increasing with DW. I still felt though that I missed much more with a DW set-up than 2h.

How much does melee eff determine your damage? My 2H has 20 less than the DW set-up, but the bigger crits seem to fire off more often.

I might be mistaken and I probably like the 2H 'feel' more and not really that bothered about min/maxing damage, but it does count when your in a tight spot which is why I'm asking.

WIGUM · 01-06-2007, 11:40 AM

As i have said i am no expert at this but i found when swinging my DW in wild attack, it would do roughly 65+55 damage = 120damage whereas my 2H would do roughly 103-110, does this confirm that my DW is better as the wepon speed is also quicker acording to the discription?

Gethalon · 01-06-2007, 12:57 PM

Breaking news!

Ahm okay iv been doing some testing and heres what i came up with:
i did a series of tests and i found the following dmg reduction from the following:

Club 21,1dps, 2,3 speed: MH=65,4 average hit, OH=46,4 average hit.
Procentage difference MH 100%, OH 70%. As you can see theres a very large difference from the mh dmg to the oh dmg on the club.

HOWEVER i at the same time did the average dmg from my oh sword:
Sword 21,1dps, 2,0 speed:MH=55,4 average hit, OH=42,7 average hit.
Procentage difference MH 100%, OH 77%. To me it seems like theres a difference on how much the weapon looses from its base attack depends on it speed. I can also confirm after my experiment that the speed that will be used in the auto-attack is the 2,3 sec speed for both trials wich means that your slowest weapon decides the speed regardless of its placement in MH or OH.

29-05-2007, 10:24 PM	#1 (permalink)
Gethalon Junior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 10	DPS -breakdown Hi this is my first post on this forum so plz be gentle^^. Iv seen alot of questions on the champion forum regarding dual wield vs 2h and if aoe is worth anything and i thought i would take the time to answer some of these questions to the best of my understanding of the class: 2H- There are different pros and cons to the use of 2H. Pros-The 2H is usually very slow and therefore gains more bonus effect of our 150% weapon dmg attack since the top and minimum dmg is way higher than a 1h. Since we have some skillz that doesnt get trigged by our auto attack and therefore makes the weapon react faster than its speed was intended (wich is good). Other than that a 2H is the best weapon for AoE and you will never run out of power with this weapon either. Cons- The 2H has a much lower dps (damage pr sec) than dual wield wich means u CANNOT let out the same ammount of damage with a 2H against single targets than you can with dual wield. Dual Wield: Pros- As stated before the dual wield gives you more single target dps than the 2H (wich is good ). Since we do have some skillz that are triggered by our auto attacks you will be able to get a load of these fired off way faster than with the 2H. The tactic to dual wield is to have a rather fast off hand (i tend to use a sword for the +hit bonus) and a slower weapon in main hand to get more out of your weapon skillz. Cons- THe dual wields major problem is realy the power cost. Since the weapons are faster you will proc more skillz and your power bar will be emptied way faster wich will realy start to show in the later end game where you might go up against bosses that takes alot longer time than what you are used to. It also has a little slower AoE base dmg, this is however not the biggest problem since you will have to attacks instead of one attack with dual wield (mh oh attacks). I personaly use dual wield but i guess its up to the persons playstyle to decide. Hoped it helped some ppl out there decide for what they are gonna pick gl out there "Gethalon" Last edited by Gethalon; 29-05-2007 at 10:38 PM.

31-05-2007, 12:51 PM	#2 (permalink)
RocKtheCasbaH Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 473	I prefer dual wield but find myself using big 2-handers more an more. Currently using a 2H axe at the mo and it kills so much quicker, especially using AOE. Sparr'ed a few times with both set-ups and the big 2 hander wins hands down every time. The 2 Hander is Dolthanc 20.4 dps with 75 max damage(I think), the duals are a 17.7 dps sword and a 16.2 dps axe both with around 45 max damage. It's the instant attacks that make the difference. __________________ From the ashes a fire shall be woken, A light from the shadows shall spring; Renewed shall be blade that was broken: The crownless again shall be king. Raahn - Warg - Rank 5 ankle biter Banx - level 50 Champion

31-05-2007, 01:31 PM	#3 (permalink)
WIGUM Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 79	im still pretty much undecided over a 21.4dps sword + 22.1 dps sword or a 25.6dps greatsword. i have no idea which one is better as they all seem to kill at roughly the same speed. Any ideas on which i should use? __________________ LOTRO CHARACHTER - MYTHRANOR KINSHIP-

01-06-2007, 11:40 AM	#9 (permalink)
WIGUM Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 79	As i have said i am no expert at this but i found when swinging my DW in wild attack, it would do roughly 65+55 damage = 120damage whereas my 2H would do roughly 103-110, does this confirm that my DW is better as the wepon speed is also quicker acording to the discription? __________________ LOTRO CHARACHTER - MYTHRANOR KINSHIP-

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31-05-2007, 09:59 PM	#4 (permalink)
Gethalon Junior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 10	Well Wigum since your two swords would have a dps equal to strangely enough 21,4+22,1=43,5 dps your dual wield swords would defenetly be better in the pure dps using no skills at all.. However if you like me use a combo of wild attack/swift strike and relentless strike you will see a dmg reduction using dual wield since the skill is determaned by your weapon dmg and since your mh (22,1<-guessing thats your mh ) will have an average dmg of 22,1x2=44,2 dmg and your oh 21,4x2=42,8 dmg you will with one combo doing one of each strike deal a total dmg of: 44,2+7+42,8+44,2+12+1,5x44,2+122+42,8=381,3 dmg. While for your 2H great sword would have an average attack of 25,6x2,8=71,68dmg wich would give a total combo dmg of: 71,68+9+71,68+16+1,5x71,68+164=439,9dmg As you might notice the dmg for the combo with the great sword is alittle higher than that of the dual wield but it is indeed hard to determan what is the best of the two. If you as a meare speculation would say that you could performe a combo of this type every 5 sec wich is not impossible you would find the dps of both choices for weapons to be: Dual wield (43,5dps+381,3dmg/5)=119,7dps 2H sword (25,6+439,9/5)=113,4dps So there you have it your dual wield combo deals slightly more dmg than your great sword however i cant at the moment confirm that you wount miss more with the dual wield combo wich is the case in other mmorpg games but if you dont miss at all the above calculations would be correct. This was btw calculated from a skill lvl of a lvl 40 champion. Hope it answered your question

01-06-2007, 09:24 AM	#7 (permalink)
Gethalon Junior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 10	well its hard at the moment to make calculations for dmg with weapons since theres so limited access to how the speed and dmg works on 1h-2h fx do we miss more with dual wield? or does a 1h do less dmg in oh? in my oppenion it doesnt it actualy does the same dmg wich at the moment makes dual wield better. And the calculations are not stupid i was trying to give an examble of the two weapon types doing a similar combo over the same period of time. If we should have done it correct the dual wield would have surpassed the 2H even more since its faster and therefore are able to make more special attacks.

01-06-2007, 11:39 AM	#8 (permalink)
Swither Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 32	Hmm, interesting debate. I have up till now preferred to use a 2-h, but I tried DW for a few hours to see. What I did notice is that the DW set-up seemed to miss or be parried/evaded more than the 2h set-up, but that maybe because of the number of potential attacks that could miss increasing with DW. I still felt though that I missed much more with a DW set-up than 2h. How much does melee eff determine your damage? My 2H has 20 less than the DW set-up, but the bigger crits seem to fire off more often. I might be mistaken and I probably like the 2H 'feel' more and not really that bothered about min/maxing damage, but it does count when your in a tight spot which is why I'm asking.

01-06-2007, 12:57 PM	#10 (permalink)
Gethalon Junior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 10	Breaking news! Ahm okay iv been doing some testing and heres what i came up with: i did a series of tests and i found the following dmg reduction from the following: Club 21,1dps, 2,3 speed: MH=65,4 average hit, OH=46,4 average hit. Procentage difference MH 100%, OH 70%. As you can see theres a very large difference from the mh dmg to the oh dmg on the club. HOWEVER i at the same time did the average dmg from my oh sword: Sword 21,1dps, 2,0 speed:MH=55,4 average hit, OH=42,7 average hit. Procentage difference MH 100%, OH 77%. To me it seems like theres a difference on how much the weapon looses from its base attack depends on it speed. I can also confirm after my experiment that the speed that will be used in the auto-attack is the 2,3 sec speed for both trials wich means that your slowest weapon decides the speed regardless of its placement in MH or OH.