Better support/use for some classes

[RavenDeBlade]

At the moment only a few classes are necessary more or less for any adventur, and that is clerics and rogues, expept that fighters/barb tanks and also mages are very usefull. But really no "need" for classes like Rangers, Bards & Paladins.

I play a Ranger at lvl 9 now, and i see the usefullness of a high level ranger is very limited at best, ranged attacked lack in most respects against higher monsters in tohit and damage wise, rangers are a great addition to any low to mid level group/dungeon, but at lvl 7 the need for a ranger really dissapears drastically.

Exept that it would be alot more fun to have class specific areas of dungeons/adventures were each class is usefull in one or more ways.

Please dont reduce this game to Rogues/Clerics only

[Shadow83]

Why would it be fair to reduce some areas only to some classes? then those classes would only get to go on those quests. I have no problems with inviting rangers to my parties. Maybe you've just been unlucky. I like playing the game with no defined set of people. Been on several quests with out a cleric or rogue been good fun. Especially on quests I'd never been on before.

[MoxArken]

Rangers can be very good classes, though i'm pretty sure your supposed to have a pet to offset some of your inabilities.

Rangers make the best scouts, leading the pack, the high wisdom (and if they were smart enough to take it) and high spot make them idea for detecting the rpesence of danger and doors, letting the rogue search for them with his high search.

I also like rangers in my groups for comabt, i know the ranger isn't going to charge in, so that means that their is a somewhat ok damage/melee char often sitting near the wizard/sorc ready to protect them if the **** hits the fan.

you have hit level 9, as i understand it there is actually little content for anyone up at that level, so maybe you should think about rerolling a different char and waiting for the content update.

[RavenDeBlade]

Why would it be fair to reduce some areas only to some classes? then those classes would only get to go on those quests. I have no problems with inviting rangers to my parties. Maybe you've just been unlucky. I like playing the game with no defined set of people. Been on several quests with out a cleric or rogue been good fun. Especially on quests I'd never been on before.

first i didnt say areas should be reduced, i asked for class specific areas. You can play without a rogue, but its more difficult. And no clerics arent essential on all quest, esp not low level ones, but at higher level quests both rogues and clerics are a must to survive.

for example, add stuff like "tracking" wich they did have, atleast in earlier versions of D&D.

[Terminus Est]

I would rather that they did it the other way around, and made clerics and rogues less essential.

To be honest, the idea that clerics are essential is really just a hang over from other mmorpgs. My group of level 3-4's did Shan-to-Kor yesterday without a healer with no real difficulty. All it takes is preparation, buying enough healing potions and taking things nice and slow. It might help a bit if they increased the amount that potions heal by just a little bit, if only to try and remove the preconception, but clerics really aren't needed (although they are an excellent addition to any group). I find it a bit odd that some people complain that money is too easily available, but in the next breath complain that they can't find a cleric. The cleric's healing job can be done entirely by potions.

Rogues seem more essential to me. There definitely seem to be locked doors (or secret areas) which one cannot get to without a rogue. I would like to see multiple ways of getting to everything in a dungeon, so you didn't have to rely on the rogue all the time. For example, a treasure chest might be behind a secret door, but an easily visible gate also leads to the same chest - unfortunately the lever to open the gate is protected by some dangerous monster. The group can either kill the monster, or if they have a rogue, bypass the monster al together.

I think this sort of thing actually is in some dungeons already (though not so often) but because of the assumptions people bring from other mmorpgs, it is not exploited. Most people seem to think that a dungeon has not been completed unless every mob is slain. This is true in many mmorpgs where xp is given for killing mobs, but in DDO there may be no gain to killing an extra mob at all. Eventually this perception will change (I hope).

[MoxArken]

I would rather that they did it the other way around, and made clerics and rogues less essential.

To be honest, the idea that clerics are essential is really just a hang over from other mmorpgs. My group of level 3-4's did Shan-to-Kor yesterday without a healer with no real difficulty. All it takes is preparation, buying enough healing potions and taking things nice and slow. It might help a bit if they increased the amount that potions heal by just a little bit, if only to try and remove the preconception, but clerics really aren't needed (although they are an excellent addition to any group). I find it a bit odd that some people complain that money is too easily available, but in the next breath complain that they can't find a cleric. The cleric's healing job can be done entirely by potions.

Rogues seem more essential to me. There definitely seem to be locked doors (or secret areas) which one cannot get to without a rogue. I would like to see multiple ways of getting to everything in a dungeon, so you didn't have to rely on the rogue all the time. For example, a treasure chest might be behind a secret door, but an easily visible gate also leads to the same chest - unfortunately the lever to open the gate is protected by some dangerous monster. The group can either kill the monster, or if they have a rogue, bypass the monster al together.

I think this sort of thing actually is in some dungeons already (though not so often) but because of the assumptions people bring from other mmorpgs, it is not exploited. Most people seem to think that a dungeon has not been completed unless every mob is slain. This is true in many mmorpgs where xp is given for killing mobs, but in DDO there may be no gain to killing an extra mob at all. Eventually this perception will change (I hope).


clerics are cheaper by a long shot then potions. and come with many handy features.

[eriken]

clerics are cheaper by a long shot then potions. and come with many handy features.

His point was that they are a reasonable replacement for a cleric.

[MoxArken]

I disagree, given the choice i would take the cleric any day of the week.

[Sulayah]

At the moment only a few classes are necessary more or less for any adventur, and that is clerics and rogues, expept that fighters/barb tanks and also mages are very usefull. But really no "need" for classes like Rangers, Bards & Paladins.


Me and a friend duo a bard and a ranger since beta :D

Anyway... The problem here isn't the game itself, nor the classes, it's the PLAYERS...
Players rushing, trying to get the "best group to kill everything fast and clean", etc... People don't wanna die, people don't wanna lose experience...and even if inviting a bard or a ranger doesn't mean they're gonna get killed, in their little mind they'd rather have a 2nd cleric or a big wizard, etc, just to be sure they won't die and lose that little bit of xp...

Good thing is, not everyone is like that, some people are above experience, loot and number of death and will gladly invite any class in their group to just ENJOY a dungeon and have fun.

[Talarn]

Sulayah. I agree.

The players do not take risks or try to make due with out. Actually this post etc was just described in an article at Tentonhammer.com. DDO is one of the only games where you can do high level instance and you don't need a cleric. Heck you can combine classes in a multitude of ways that make up for this. Device a strategy that can ensure your victory. Just act like you would in a PnP. Strategy, Agreement, Execution, and Fun.

The article I talked about is this:

Unconventional Grouping Strategies (http://ddo.tentonhammer.com/index.php?module=ContentExpress&func=display&ceid=122)

But for the ranger true that you are not the most wanted class, but you deffinetly don't fall in my category of unwanted. No class in D&D is unwanted. Though I usually only do 4 man groups since I find 6 man groups to much rush and in a 4 man group I just have more fun.

[Naryas]

I would rather that they did it the other way around, and made clerics and rogues less essential.

To be honest, the idea that clerics are essential is really just a hang over from other mmorpgs. My group of level 3-4's did Shan-to-Kor yesterday without a healer with no real difficulty. All it takes is preparation, buying enough healing potions and taking things nice and slow. It might help a bit if they increased the amount that potions heal by just a little bit, if only to try and remove the preconception, but clerics really aren't needed (although they are an excellent addition to any group). I find it a bit odd that some people complain that money is too easily available, but in the next breath complain that they can't find a cleric. The cleric's healing job can be done entirely by potions.

Yes.

And there is other possiblity like a Bard using wand to heal.

Or having a few Warforged that can be repaired buy the Wizard/Sorcerer.

And later on when the will add Druid we will have 2 classes with bigg healing capacity.


Rogues seem more essential to me. There definitely seem to be locked doors (or secret areas) which one cannot get to without a rogue. I would like to see multiple ways of getting to everything in a dungeon, so you didn't have to rely on the rogue all the time. For example, a treasure chest might be behind a secret door, but an easily visible gate also leads to the same chest - unfortunately the lever to open the gate is protected by some dangerous monster. The group can either kill the monster, or if they have a rogue, bypass the monster al together.

Never tried this my self but theoreticaly I asum that if you have a Bard with high UMD and some wands (or the comb Wizard - Cleric) with right spells and a Ranger you could solve them most thing exept open locks.

[Panimu]

Why would it be fair to reduce some areas only to some classes?

His point is we already have that now. i.e. locked doors with no key only accessible to Rogues.