Weight Penalties

[MinusZero]

One way to even things up again in the V8 SuperCar category i think could be weight penalties.

It is used very successfully in the british touring car championship, so why not give it a try here.

There is talk of it even being considered for Formula 1, which is lets face it...even more boring than the V8's.

If you ask me, it is obvious that CAMS is holden biased, otherwise something would have been done years ago, rather than allowing years and years of holden domination.

I like the V8 cars but apart from Bathurst i can take it or leave it as far as watching it goes.

Do you read a book when you already know how it ends? Do you watch the end of a movie before the start? I am afraid this is how the V8's are...why watch it when you can be pretty sure of who will win?

My thoughts are controversial and no doubt someone will have a go at me, but something needs to be done to this category to bring it back to life. Weight penalties might just do that

:D

[gtr69]

I completely agree with you, weight penaltys are a great idea and is used in BTCC, DTM, ETCC and it works there, but AVESCO does doesn't seem to give a **** about racing in this country, only money. It would make the racing close again, and worth watching, hopefully the new cars for next year might do that (but I doubt it :( )

[MinusZero]

It is annoying how it works everywhere else but isnt even thought of here where it is obviously needed.

The biggest problem in motorsport is that governing bodies look at the qualifying times and see that cars are separated by so little and think that everything is fine. Qualifying is one thing, a race is another.

Look at formula 1. the last race of the season, 4 cars finished on the lead lap. This is a form of racing where qualifying times can be less than a tenth of a second between cars...but it isnt equal.

I think you are right gtr69, avesco is just interested in money.

One would like to think that with the new awesome looking falcon that things might be closer, but it will still be using the same engine, so i have my doubts. Though i have heard it said that the new one is more aerodynamic so perhaps there will be some difference.

[imported_JacK]

The project blueprint thing is sposed to make em the same, so we can see that if the ford teams are right to complain about there "inferior" car, or they're just not up to scratch.

But what type of weight penalties? On winning teams is stupid, and is best suited to more laid-back styles of racing. But whats the point of building a good car and winning lots of races if they're just going to put you back down, meaning you have to spend more money. Why not just keep it all, and pay yourselves a lot, and have really great holidays, and then wait to be boosted back into contention?

But on makes; ford v holden, it might be interesting, although personally I think it's just TWR at the moment dominating everyone.

Take out top Holden and Top ford teams:
Race wins tally stands at 1 - 0 to holden courtesy of Russell Ingall in Canberra in the Reverse Grid Race.( if my memeory recalls correctly)
That, I think, says it all. All the other teams aren't good enough, holden included!

But again, that's just my opinion, with a few little stats to back it up (practising 4 my HSC :) :mad: :( !)

[MinusZero]

Perhaps handicapping the best team is not to everyones liking, but if the same team wins over and over, where is the interest.

Look at formula 1, ferrari won 14 or 16 races this year and the powers at be are wondering what they can do to bring the viewing numbers back. If the supercars arent careful, they will end up in the same predicament.

Dont know why they just set a limit as to what each team can spend in a season ( like a salary cap ). This would even the field and give the smaller teams a chance. I think they should do this for F1 too.
For example Ferrari's budget is $870 million compared to $320 for Minardi ( doesnt make sense does it ? ), same goes or TWR comapred to a privateer ( VIP ).
Something has to be done and I dont think Project Blueprint is the best option

[MinusZero]

interesting idea but i am not sure that a salary cap could work. How would things be worked out if one car was written off. Also when a new model comes out, how can the cost of making a new car be budgeted into a salary cap.

Dont know anything about Project Blueprint so i cant make an opinion. They could just all use the same engines :p But then they might find that one car design has an advantage over another.

I know that in nascar, some cars which had the tv t-cam which sits upright on the roof actually gained an advantage. so they made all cars have the t-cam housing, whether a camera was in it or not.

[imported_JacK]

Minardi have a budget of $320 million? That sounds way to high, I think. A few years back it was only $25 million, half of what Schumacher got at the time.

A cap might work, however, the teams could be very sneaky, and the richer ones could easily find ways around it. Like they could create a whole separate sort of team, just to test with or develop cars or whatever, and just *sponsor* them with their money. I'm sure they'd find other ways to spend it, it's just the richer teams could do it better.

What project blueprint will do, I think ,is show just how good a job HRT are really doing. If the HRT team was running Fords (as stupid as that sounds), they'd be just as dominant; I believe.

[gtr69]

I don't know how it works, but the BTCC has a money limit as how much they can use in building the car 125,000 pounds I think it is. V8 supercars will need this soon, before it gets too expensive and teams start dropping out, jus like BTCC after 1998.

[swardsie]

i think the best team deserves to win. brisbae won the grand final this year so will they get a weight penalty even tho its impssoible buut they wont get a penalty for bein the best team.usa the best in the olympics so will they get a penalty???? u have to look at it this way. hrt might have the most money but they also put in the most effort.even if u have money if u dont put hard work in it still wont work for the team.

[gtr69]

[quote]Originally posted by swardsie:
i think the best team deserves to win. brisbae won the grand final this year so will they get a weight penalty even tho its impssoible buut they wont get a penalty for bein the best team.<hr></blockquote>

They sorta do, They get a lower pick in the draft, and is mean to even things out a bit, and help the teams at the bottom get back up again (but hopefully there is no hope for Carlton! :D )

[MinusZero]

I brought up the topic of weight penalties not to really disadvantage more wealthy teams, but to make the racing more watchable.

i always watch bathurst but as for the other races, if i happen to be watching tv and it comes on i will watch it...otherwise i am not hanging on the edge waiting for the next hrt benefit...i mean v8 races.

I think part of the problem is the australian tracks too, they are too narrow for these big cars and there isnt enough passing opportunities without risking bumping someone off and getting penalised for it.

[jopaul]

readmy post on this page

http://62.25.96.161/cgi-bin/forum/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=89&t=000019

don't agree with weigh penalties just wish it would be fair in letting the fords have the same amount of down force as the holdens. 60kg to 16kg frontal.
they did for the holdens early 90's plus more than the falcons.
that is where the difference is and that explains why the fords are struggling. they have to set the cars up in a way to get the same lap times but problem being tyre wear and traction after so many laps.
I like the gtp racing better as they are more closer to what we drive but the only dislike is how procar kept penalising John Bowe's mustang last year because it was to fast.
(bring rev limit 7500 down to 7000, still to fast.
Then they made them raise it 40mm, still to fast.
So rev's bought down to 6500 + 57kg lead ballast,still to fast for procar liking so this year it compete's against the lambo's, porsche's, ferrari's and a honda nsr.
how's that for 4.6l 260kw compared to the 5.7l 300kw commodore which is only good enough to slug it out with the wrx's and lancer's.

ford power is best. xr6t eats the what they though to be the best ever vy ss in performance,handling,looks,safty and economy.
hands down wheels nov 02. see how easy it is for ford to do so. :D

[MinusZero]

bowe's stand was so fast. i watched one race when he was on pole.

had a bad start and dropped to 5th but within one lap he blew away the (ha!) 300kw GTS down the straight. vroooooooooooooommmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!

gtho351, comparing the xr6t to the ss probably is the fair comparison. but i prefer to compared it to the jokingly priced top hsv at about $90000 and seeing that the hsv is still slower hehehehhe.