Mitsubishi & Toyota joining the V8 series

[MinusZero]

i read today (16/6/2002) in the Sun-Herald that there are thoughts about Mitsubishi and Toyota joining the V8 series.

i think this would be a step in the right direction for the V8 series.

I am sorry if people disagree with me, but i feel the formula has gotten increasing stale since the days when we saw the BMW M3's, Ford Sierras and Nissan Skylines running around the circuits.

I dont think a 2 make series was ever the way to go, it was bound to have the current events happen to the series. The series needed variety.

Dont get me wrong i like the V8's, but my interest has been waning over the past few seasons. Its become like knowing how a movie finishes before seeing it. Who could be bothered seeing it?

The paper said that both the boss of Holden motorsport and former team boss Frank Gibson are behind the idea. I know i am no-one in the world of V8's but add me to the support list too.


:) :)

[ June 17, 2002: Message edited by: MinusZero ]</p>

I like the idea as well, as long its V8's only. :)

Same hear...more variety....

I watch Speedweek on SBS for the variety in cars and you get to see ALL the field during the telecast!!!!. now as apposed to Supercars not just DJR, HRT, GRM.....because really it has become rediculously boring and especially this year..If the powers at be don't do something soon it will die a big death....it won't be pretty. I will not be going to Barbagello this year, as i don't want to pay 90 odd bucks to see a HRT whitewash...regardless of what make it is it doesn't bother me, as long as it is some other team get a chance....there is NO parity...and I would like to have a gander at the ecu on the HRT cars!!! No wheelspin on the exit to corners..
something fishy is going on.
And ya cant tell me Kelly didn't hold up Lowndes at Canberra.

Hope something happens soon...

[James63]

The toyota one was never confirmed or denied, however Mitsubishi are actually interested in joining, possibly by 2004. The plain is to run a v8 dodge in their magna..

[Unit]

Call me a traditionalist but I dont like the idea one bit, why? Because in the first 2 years in the sport they will struggle to be competitive and lose lots of money then they will fold because no-one will support them apart from a measly few. But I think a return to the old days of improved production is the way to go. Considering Ford are bringing out the 5.4 litre in September with a 330 KW top shelf GT against a 5.7 GTS Monaro with 300 KW. The only thing could happen is another supercar scare but those days would have been great. If you think im some old *****, im only 19.

[gtr69]

[quote]Originally posted by Unit:
Call me a traditionalist but I dont like the idea one bit, <hr></blockquote>

it hasnt always been just Holden v Ford u know...


and about they will just die, have u seen the DTM? the semi-factory Audi team wasnt very succesful in their first 2 years, and now they lead the championship

[ June 17, 2002: Message edited by: gtr69 ]</p>

[MinusZero]

Wow i was pleased to see my post got some good responses.

I disagree with Unit that if they are uncompetitive they will die. Take the Cart series in the US. Toyota joined that series and sure they were off the pace for the first two seasons but now they are dominating and more teams have Toyota engines.

Skidsmate: i agree, i think lowndes was help up too. it isnt hard to work it out since HRT and Kmart racing are both under the TWR banner. Racing like that the series doesnt need...more brands and variety...it does

I really hope the addition of Mitsubishi and Toyota becomes a reality :)

[Unit]

But this is Australia, back in the days of more manufacturers it was only Holden and Ford (and to a lesser extent Valiant) that interested the majority of spectators because they were australian cars, not like a Magna or Camry which may be made in Australia but are completely designed in Japan. But if they do join good luck to them but I don't think it will work out.

Im not sure who bought their way into the supercar series. It Started with a M though. They currently do not have a V8 car whoever it is and are making one at the moment. They paid a **** load of money to enter the series. Skaify use to race for nissan in the V8 series and he did alright then (Is this correct. Im struggling remembering that far back

[hopdoc]

I do like the Holden Ford rivialry but I'm all for more brands entering, as long as the trusty V8 is there. I think it would be good for the Supercars especially outside of Australia and it would be interesting to see a Toyota quad OHC alloy block up against the 'old' pushrod cast iron V8's.

As for Todd holding up Lowndes, I'm not so sure. Craig was definitely on his bumper in some sections but in others Todd pulled away.
:cool:

Hi Guys!!!

[quote]Skaify use to race for nissan in the V8 series and he did alright then (Is this correct. Im struggling remembering that far back<hr></blockquote>

Yeah but there wasn't any V8's racing back with the Nissans and the Sierra's and with 630hp and 1100 kgs they went all right.

These new V8's arent ironblocks anymore either like back in the 80's there fuel injected aluminium 5ltr chevs so it will be interesting to see what happens aganst the Toyota's and Mitsubishi's :)

go lowndsey :D

[MinusZero]

hopdoc "it would be interesting to see a Toyota quad OHC alloy block up against the 'old' pushrod cast iron V8's"

the story said that Mitsubishi would pull a V8 from Dodge, but toyota would need to look into the archives to find a push rod V8. So i guess if they joined it would be on the basis that their V8 was also a pushrod engine.

[MinusZero]

GTS Monaro "go lowndsey"

you are aware lowndes is in a ford now arent you considering your nick is holden? hehehehe

either way i agree, didnt like him at holden but how can you not like him at ford with that awesome paint job, has there ever been a better one? :)

Yeah Minus0 I know he drives a ford but as I said to Craig when I first mailed him last year...Its not the car its the driver I follow, even thought I like holdens I dont hate fords either.

Craig normally mails me on easter or xmas but i haven't heard from him this april, he gave me his private mail address then he told us to mail him if we want to talk to him at his website mail throught his webmaster, he must be really busy tryin to catch ol' Concord nose

[Unit]

But Mitsubishi and Toyota will get no supporters, look back at when the GT-R's were around everyone supported Ford or Holden still.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Unit:
But Mitsubishi and Toyota will get no supporters, look back at when the GT-R's were around everyone supported Ford or Holden still.[/QUOTE
Maybe, but if Toyota and Mitsubishi become successful, I think a new generation of fans will come through.

Can I just say one thing....Something is needed to SPICE the series up. Crikey by jingo it is REALLY becoming the MOST boring series out there.

Thats all...Don't get me wrong LOVE the V8's nothing better...that growl........
but more than likely on the Sundays when the telecast begins I'll be pluggin in the PS2 and given V8 supercars the game a whirl and hopefully gettin a FORD up there for a round win....( ahh memories it was such a long time ago now since that happened...)..and F1 we won't go there!

Regards
Skids

[gtr69]

[quote]Originally posted by Unit:
But Mitsubishi and Toyota will get no supporters, look back at when the GT-R's were around everyone supported Ford or Holden still.<hr></blockquote>


well i did!


only those bogan carby v8 lovers only really keep those veiws.

[MinusZero]

[quote] Unit But Mitsubishi and Toyota will get no supporters, look back at when the GT-R's were around everyone supported Ford or Holden still. <hr></blockquote>

i disagree. i am a ford person, but i know there are people out there that dont like either. I dont mind either but will be barracking for them too as i dont like holden :p

GT-R's are memorable for ford fans. the year that stands out was when **** Johnson was ripped off at bathurst in the rain in the sierra. :)

[quote] skidsmate Can I just say one thing....Something is needed to SPICE the series up. Crikey by jingo it is REALLY becoming the MOST boring series out there. <hr></blockquote>

you are not wrong skidsmate. i think the series needs life or i think its fan base will disappear

[Codemasters Customer Service]

Moved to general forum.

[MinusZero]

yes i guess i should have put it here in the first place :)

[Bulletime]

Maybe the new fords that should be in the season next year will be just the thing to stop HRT's absolute domination, and thus making thus making it boring. The holden ford rivelry doesn't work when holden keep winning and the fords don't seem to be able to do anything to beat scaife.

As for Mitsubishi and Toyota joining, well have to wait and see what happens next year with the new fords, but maybe they could have their own series, if that's popular enough then throw them all in together!?

[The Sandman]

ok i havent read all of the posts on this topic as i havent been back to the site for a while. I saw in one post that someone said it hasnt always been ford vs holden well i have news for you sonny the v8 supercars has always been that and always should be that. when nissan and fords and the others were racing it was actually touring cars but they changed that with good reasons aussies want to see ford vs holden battle not toyota and mitsubishi and from what ive heard one i think it ws about mitsubishi they want to make a 4wd v8 which is unfair because they will wipe the floor against the competitors with rwd. and thats all i got to say about that. for now anyway.

[MinusZero]

well sandman, i have news for you. do you honestly believe they would allow a 4wd in the series, if mitsubishi and toyota join it would be on the basis they get the same type and size of engine i would imagine.

i am a die-hard for fan but i dont really think the new ford would make any difference. mainly because i doubt they will be able to put the new engine in, which i have heard is a 5.4l twin cam v8. if they did holden would want their 5.7, but the engines wouldnt be the same size, so i dont see that happening.

[quote] The Sandman - aussies want to see ford vs holden battle not toyota and mitsubishi <hr></blockquote>
i disagree, i think the bulk of people want competitive racing, not a boring procession. this may be what the series needs

[Unit]

Adding more manufacturers wont mean that a series will be more interesting. take Super Touring as an example. The V8 series is in danger of stagnating but adding manufacturers isn't going to help that too much becuase all that will happen is there wont be any new teams but buyouts of existing teams and going what i have been saying before its the teams that make the difference not the make of car.

Its not a Holden domination of the sport but a TWR domination. The top three cars in the championship are from the TWR stable but the next two are Fords. Also the rules seem to favour this TWR group as well, Lowndes was penalised for crossing the yellow line at the end of pitlane in Canberra but in the third race of the round Skaife clearly crossed the yellow line at the start of pitlane when at the beginning of Saturday the announcers at the track clearly said there will be harsh penalties for either offence during race week.
Although I think they are using Bright to get away with it by just penalising Bright.

Yeah I agree with unit here

[MinusZero]

I have to agree Unit, the rules are Holden biased.

Some Holden fans may think it is sour grapes and perhaps it is a little.

But i always cast my mind back to the late 90's when Glenn Seton won the championship. That year, the Fords were killing the opposition, so what did CAMS do? they penalised the fords and then the holdens got on top. Luckliy Seton still won it.

And how many years ago was that? Holden have been dominating for so long and nothing has been done to even the series.

They are always on about keeping things even, but i would like to see the evidence...i wouldnt be surprised if Holden has a link to CAMS.

But these are just my thoughts and i am sure other avid V8 Ford fans would have noticed this happen too.

I just hope things get better soon for the V8's

[Holden Boy]

I remember in '93, when glen seton was winning, that ford were penalised for illegaly running lightweight body panels. Since then, ford have adopted a new aerodynamic undertray, holden have had to increase the angle of their rear wing, and next year holdens have to downgrade to the ancient double wishbone suspension. And to top it off, ford's current engine has 30+ hp over the holden engine - quoted from HSV. Next year holdens will have an equal engine. Never have ford been restricted - only penalised for illegal parts. I agree that the category should return to the days of improved production - but only when the popularity of the v8 supercars falls, or it becomes too much like Formula 1.

[MinusZero]

when it gets like formula 1? it already is like it...passing in the pits not on the track and one long procession from start to finish

[NfsRacing]

the magna may be as Australian as the commodore or Falcon due to it begin Australian designed and built (more so then the other 2) and the name brands on the other are very strongly American related so whats the difference with having one thats American related.
personally i like v8s the way they are .. u all say that it will die or hasnt been very popular .. UGH? v8 supercars over the last few years have grown extremely popular to be the third most watched / attened sport in Australia after AFL and the Rugby codes.
There is no confirmed rumour that Toyota is looking to get into the fray but Mitsubishi is definatley gonna have a shot with a magna powered by a chrysler v8 or sumtin.. at barbagello this year there was a mitsubishi tent in the paddock with a ralliart magna? :D
i wouldnt mind a third manufacturer but even with out it v8s bloody OWN!

neither mitsubishi or toyota, or anyone else, will be allowed to enter V8 Supercar series. two reasons:

1) trying to keep a level playing field with two manufacturers is hard enough. imagine doing it with three or more.

2) holden and ford want to keep the series as their own private playground for the forseeable future.

[MinusZero]

I hope you are wrong Dingo, i would like to see more manufacturers.

I hold very little interest in watching them as they are, if they are on tv when i have it on, i will watch, but otherwise Bathrust is all i would watch.

If it doesnt create a level playing field bringing them in, well it wont be any different to how it is now.

[swardsie]

i have some reasons y toyota and mitsubishi shouldnt join
1.neither of them have v8's in their road cars.
2. the toyota is a smaller and lighter car which means it would be faster.
3. people complain about not enough room in pits and on the track. imagine having 50 cars at canberra!
4. there are already to many lower class drivers, how are we going to find 20-30 more good drivers

these are my resons

[wannabe_v8driver]

[quote] 3. people complain about not enough room in pits and on the track. imagine having 50 cars at canberra!<hr></blockquote>
Ok...well im just going to back your post up...well they wouldnt increase the size of the grid...that would be impossible....theres already enough piggy-back(pit sharing)going on as it is....and there bearly coming to terms and handling that, what they would most likely do is look at all the teams currently in the championship...get the worst performers out of the group...and cut those teams or cut the drivers in the teams...to allow for the extra spots..then we'd loose some of the more interesting performers...such as paul weel who puts in the odd top 10...and john faulkner..we'd also loose some of the 3 car teams...ie. castrol and 00 motorsport be cut to 2 cars(so probably we'd loose one of the greats of the game...being l.p and also an up and coming star...rodney forbes)...and isnt this whole thing over...havent AVESCO decided not to let anyone else in...and were did the idea of toyota come into it.....it was only meant to be mitsubishi they were "considering" and also...as it's been said before....none of the other two "aussie 4" car-makers produce road-based v8's...and for all those magna driver's....the ralli-art isnt a v8....and shouldnt be considered one...thats all....lol

cheers

[imported_JacK]

Hey yall.

Well, the way I see it, if they are going to let in Mitsubishi, they must make a real saying they have to have at least 6 or 8 cars in the field, otherwise it gets ridiculous, as they'd put heaps of effort into one team, spending as much on that as ford and holden do on all their teams.

Second, to all you whinging ford fans, get over it. It's not a holden dominance, it's a HRT dominance. More specifically, a Mark Skaife dominance. He's a total legend, and w/o him in the championship, it'd be close, and fords'd be in the hunt.

The problem is the Ford teams really need to get their acts together, Stone Bros. is the only team that can really challenge HRT and TWR. 00 motorsport is just being held up by Lowndes' total brilliance.

And also, what other holden teams are up the front constantly other than TWR. I'll tell you how many, none. That's what happens when you get the best peoplz and put 'em under one roof: they dominate. If TWR was ford, they'd still be kicken butt.

[jopaul]

ive just read all the posts on mitsubishi and toyota entering v8s and you are all over looking one thing. To compete you need to be selling a certain amount of road going 4 door sedans with a 5 litre pushrod v8 engine to be able to compete in the series . If mitsu or toyo are to get in they will need to be selling these cars .It would be good to see more cars but dont hold your breath . We wont loose any drivers they will be picked up by an incoming team like mitsubishi racing or toy0ta motor sport HAHA . there can only be a certain number of cars in pit lane so if mits or toyot come in there will be less holdens and fords not less drivers. Also stop whinging about ford having there arse kicked by scaife . Im a castrol racing fan and im just as sick of him winning and why should they be penalized for seting up there car the best . Ford fans should be whinging if there car isnt as quick its because it has a blue oval slowing it down but what excuse have the other holden teams got they have the same car as hrt. You guys dont seam to get that the cars Ford and Holden are equal Its the setup and reliability that get twr cars at the front of the field

[imported_JacK]

EXACTLY!!!!!

Hey guys, I heard a rumour that Russell Ingall is driving for Toyota next season.
I wouldnt mind as long as it's a V8 pushrod. :)

[swardsie]

well 51 kmart racing
u must be a total dipstick cos its ford he wants to race with and what we have been talkin about
TOYOTA ISNT AND WONT BE IN THE V8 SERIES

THANKYOU

[imported_JacK]

Hey, leave him alone swardsie, he just said it was a rumor. No need to insault the guy or anything. How do you know he won't go to another holden team?

no need to call people 'dipstick' remember mate "what comes around, goes around" ok!

read motorsport news no.236 (latest issue)

Headlines 'Ingalls Five year plan'

In the interview he mentions that he "could be going anywhere.."

"No descision has been made on team or manufacturer. Negotiations are taking place with both................."
regards
Skids.

;)

swardsie, I think we all agree who the real dipstick is.. as I said, it was a rumour and I have just learned that Russell Ingal did say he was joining toyota as a joke.

[helix#17]

The inside goss at the moment is that Radisich is unhappy at DJR and they are discussing an early release of his contract so that they can sign Ingall.

[swardsie]

i think that none of u no anything about v8s so all of u r ****heads

I think you should just **** OFF you smart ass know it all ****er ****

wanna go come for a visit up to Gladstone and I'll bust your head ****

[imported_JacK]

What a poor atitude swardsie.

I mean, I think everyone else besides me is an idiot, but hey, I keep that opinion to myself.

Oh, crud.

But seriously,
just cause people disagree with you, or bring up something that isn't related to what you said and what not doesn't mean you should act like some stupid 5yo or somfink lame like that.

[swardsie]

i hope u no that im only 14 and i still no more bout v8's than u

[MinusZero]

I have read that Ingall will be at DJR next season. Also i saw V8 Superstars on channel ten last sunday and everyone was more or less having a go at him about it...so therefore i think it is going to happen that Ingall will be in a Ford.

Not necessarily DJR, but it will be a blue oval

[imported_JacK]

swardsie thats your opinion and your certainly entitle to it.
How do you know that you know more about V8's than me though? You wouldn't have a clue.

Ingall to DJR? I wonder why he'd do that? personally I think it'd be a pretty stupid move myself. (Since they're down a fair bit at the moment)
I wonder where Radasich would go if they threw him out? He hasn't been to impressive lately. Then again, it's hard to be impressive up against TWR and Prodrive.

Ingall to 00 motorsport, Cromley to sit out again and drive in the Enduro's?????
or could he go back to give the 'baby faced assasin' a helping hand again??

just a wild guess.

regards
Skids ;)

[FLANO]

omg yes and toyota and mitsubishi it will make it heaps better and all those people that disagree are just scared they will own to much!!! i like that idea, oh yeh and add the GT-R plz god plz

-FLANO (dedicated petrol head)

[swardsie]

as if they would let in a gt-r
avesco has tried to make the comp even and that would make it far worse

[FLANO]

eh the gt-r will hang **** all over those v8 pfft things eh go the skyline they OWN

-FLANO (ohhhh **** now just wait cant even think of the amount of **** ppl r gunna hang on me for sayin that one)

[swardsie]

ur an idiot flano and no 1 like u

[gtr69]

[quote]Originally posted by swardsie:
as if they would let in a gt-r
avesco has tried to make the comp even and that would make it far worse<hr></blockquote>


And they're doing a great job of that... :rolleyes:

I heard that Mitsubishi were definately considering a V8, but I dont know about Toyota!

I think it would be good for V8 racing and for its fans

[quote]But Mitsubishi and Toyota will get no supporters, look back at when the GT-R's were around everyone supported Ford or Holden still.<hr></blockquote>
We all remember what happened when a Nissan Skyline won Bathurst, nearly everyone in the crowd booed Jim Richards and Mark Skaife and Jim Richard's speech was "Your all a pack of arseholes"

[ September 15, 2002: Message edited by: G8 A Raid ]</p>

[MinusZero]

[quote] We all remember what happened when a Nissan Skyline won Bathurst, nearly everyone in the crowd booed Jim Richards and Mark Skaife and Jim Richard's speech was "Your all a pack of arseholes" <hr></blockquote>

I remember that day well.

perhaps i am wrong but i think the reason the crowd booed wasnt because it was a skyline, but because they thought **** Johnsons Shell Sierra should have won.

was a long time ago but i think what happened was that the race was red flagged after DJ crossed the line and on that lap the skyline crashed (4WD who needs it :p ). they took the results from the previous lap as it always is in those situations, but because DJ crossed the line and then the race was flagged, i think people think he should have won.

im not sure if thats exactly how it happened but was something like that.

the booes were for the controversial result not for being a skyline.

I'm what you guys would consider an old fart but I 've done my time around the tracks as a crew member for several of the top drivers. I have been at Bathurst for 8 races and I am finding watching the current V8 series a little boring. The addition of some new players could spice things up a bit. It like watching strippers , they can be the hottest looking units around but after a while the moves get a little familiar,but bring out a new girl and the bar fills up again. Racing is also entertainment and Brocky back at the Mt will be awesome. Did you Holden loving guys know that Scaifey started his racing in the Ford Laser series racing against Glen Seton and Seton got the Skyline drive in Gibbos team and Mark had to pedal the Gazelle? I would love to see a shoot out between drivers all in the same car to see who really is quickest at the moment.... :p

[Unit]

In my humble opinion on raw speed alone it would be Ambrose that would win that race, Skaife would be second and Lowndes would be third.

[MinusZero]

that would be a great idea. i have always wanted to see that. drivers change cars and see who is fastest.

doubtful it would ever happen though