Excidium
04-10-2002, 09:57 PM
Hi, first of all, let me write this message in English. I've noticed that a lot of my fellow Dutchies lack the skill to write English or have the guts and respect to do so. For those who ask certain questions in Dutch that remain unanswered: try to write in English please, you're not alone out there you know...
Anyway, that's not why I bothered to post in the first place. This post kinda concerns the upcoming PC version. What bothers me most are the actual claims that are made concerning the physics. Let me give an example:
"State-of-the-art car physics engine, tested for realism by professional race drivers."
I would like to know what "professional race drivers" were contacted during the development of the game. I haven't played the final version yet of course, but why do I still have the feeling this isn't a state of the art physics engine? The way I see it is like you guys are targeting this game for a Sim-racing audience, but still want to appeal the arcade scene. As most of you guys should be aware of, there is one law of physics and it's either wrong or right. It can be calculated by using different methods of maths and stuff like that, thus increasing the actual realism. What Codies are doing at the moment is tweak the game on actual feeling, but does that make the game more realistic? I guess not...
Look, I don't care if you guys make an arcade game and target that audience, but please don't lure the real sim drivers by claiming things that have yet to be proven. On paper the game looks great: good physics engine, loads of tracks, loads of cars, nice graphics...but how good is the physics engine to be honoust? Surely you can lock up your wheels with an amount of wheelspin, but this can only be noticed with a certain degree at the start.
Second point in question is: how advanced is the actual tire model? One of the most important thing in a racing sim would be the tire model. Is it calculated in a way that was corrected with maths or with actual studies or was it based on actual "feel" of the car? I would really like to have that one cleared up.
I'm sorry if I sound a bit harsch, but I just can't understand this kind of marketing that very well. It's all based on selling stuff, not about creating a realistic game anymore. I understand why though, just look at Grand Prix Legends for example. Most realistic game to date (well maybe nascar 4 comes close, but that's based on the same engine anyway), but was a marketing failure at the time. Same thing goes for World Sports Cars, which was being developed by two wonderfull chaps for Empire. Unfortunately Empire loosed it's patience and forced certain things...they split and Racing Legends was born a few months ago (www.west-racing.com for more information). Problem is: they do have problems with licencing and stuff and TOCA HAS a lot of licences, so it would be a real shame if such a precious package would be wasted by surrealistic physics, wouldn't it?
Anyway, bottom line of this post is: will TOCA indeed be a race SIM in terms of actual physics or will it be a game that has physics "based on actual feel"? Will the physics feature accurate data or is it just based on random values, determined by feel and gameplay? If so, please state it so I (and a lot of real sim racers down in the core scene) should anticipate it's release or mark it as an arcade game...I really hope it's at least more realistic than GP4 is (example of game based on "feel", which turned out to be bad in a way :p ).
Cheers and good luck anyway...
Anyway, that's not why I bothered to post in the first place. This post kinda concerns the upcoming PC version. What bothers me most are the actual claims that are made concerning the physics. Let me give an example:
"State-of-the-art car physics engine, tested for realism by professional race drivers."
I would like to know what "professional race drivers" were contacted during the development of the game. I haven't played the final version yet of course, but why do I still have the feeling this isn't a state of the art physics engine? The way I see it is like you guys are targeting this game for a Sim-racing audience, but still want to appeal the arcade scene. As most of you guys should be aware of, there is one law of physics and it's either wrong or right. It can be calculated by using different methods of maths and stuff like that, thus increasing the actual realism. What Codies are doing at the moment is tweak the game on actual feeling, but does that make the game more realistic? I guess not...
Look, I don't care if you guys make an arcade game and target that audience, but please don't lure the real sim drivers by claiming things that have yet to be proven. On paper the game looks great: good physics engine, loads of tracks, loads of cars, nice graphics...but how good is the physics engine to be honoust? Surely you can lock up your wheels with an amount of wheelspin, but this can only be noticed with a certain degree at the start.
Second point in question is: how advanced is the actual tire model? One of the most important thing in a racing sim would be the tire model. Is it calculated in a way that was corrected with maths or with actual studies or was it based on actual "feel" of the car? I would really like to have that one cleared up.
I'm sorry if I sound a bit harsch, but I just can't understand this kind of marketing that very well. It's all based on selling stuff, not about creating a realistic game anymore. I understand why though, just look at Grand Prix Legends for example. Most realistic game to date (well maybe nascar 4 comes close, but that's based on the same engine anyway), but was a marketing failure at the time. Same thing goes for World Sports Cars, which was being developed by two wonderfull chaps for Empire. Unfortunately Empire loosed it's patience and forced certain things...they split and Racing Legends was born a few months ago (www.west-racing.com for more information). Problem is: they do have problems with licencing and stuff and TOCA HAS a lot of licences, so it would be a real shame if such a precious package would be wasted by surrealistic physics, wouldn't it?
Anyway, bottom line of this post is: will TOCA indeed be a race SIM in terms of actual physics or will it be a game that has physics "based on actual feel"? Will the physics feature accurate data or is it just based on random values, determined by feel and gameplay? If so, please state it so I (and a lot of real sim racers down in the core scene) should anticipate it's release or mark it as an arcade game...I really hope it's at least more realistic than GP4 is (example of game based on "feel", which turned out to be bad in a way :p ).
Cheers and good luck anyway...