Might for hunters

[Borondir]

I think we can all agree that Turbine devs enjoy putting might buffs on hunter items, judging by currently existing armour sets and also the new one that we seem to get (http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=268874). They seem to think that doing melee damage is important for us, and basically say so in the class description. Personally, I've always thought that might is our primary crap stat. My feeling is that an overwhelming majority of hunters agrees with this, but I'd be interested to see some numbers on this. So hunters, what do you think about getting large might buffs in stead of will or fate or ICPR ones?

[Divona]

When i saw those pictures first time and before also saw hunter changes coming from book8, i was thinking like this:

New Hunter class description - They are mainly fast travelers around the middle-earth. When war calls its time to enter combat. They start battle with ranged type of items to engage. After couple arrows has been shot then comes the melee (pain train). Hunters can use dual weapons in close combat to be somehow effective. When the "kiting" tactic fails for some odd reason and hunter cant withstand too long in melee, there is a way to find path and leave the danger behind instantly - to start later again from clean sheet.

Book8 month of the Hunters, introducing melee off-tank hunter role with new might bonus epic set gear. We the Turbine are proud that we found solution for that class.
Happy hunting everyone :)

[Noerenn]

I think might is almost completly useless for hunters. Yes maybe for solo its good, and maybe for PvP, more melee damage and resistances... For group play i think it's crap. Think this is just the new PvP set. Low cut...Might... Sigh...

[lihanaamari]

So hunters, what do you think about getting large might buffs in stead of will or fate or ICPR ones?

I know a hunter running around with 550 might. He hits like a truck with melee skills, but that's just for fooling around in PvMP and very much worthless in PvE.

Regarding the power issues I think the great intention from the developers might (pun intended) have been that we should use Strength of the Earth to regenerate power whenever needed, but that's not what players like to do. I don't enjoy it either. The skill doesn't even work at all in some of the new instances where bosses keep interrupting you with AOE attacks. Collecting ICPR junk and power potions isn't much fun, but I understand that slapping mighty amounts of will/fate/icpr on the hunter set would result in even more trivialized play of the class, because you would practically never run out of power (very much like in B6 and SoA).

I agree the final bonus on the new raid set is really weird unless the new raid offers a kiting job to hunters. I'm happy as long as the eventual level 60 PvMP armour set bonus won't be a reduction to Beneath Notice cooldown...

[Esteledain]

I can understand the scepticism. In the traditional role of SoA, we stood back and delivered damage from afar. No need to move in and risk taking a beating, that was for the CMPs/GRDs. So we stacked Agi/Will/Fate along with ICPR for our grouping/raid builds. And this worked fairly well for solo as well, even though I usually dropped some Will/Fate to increase my morale/Vit/Agi when going solo back then.

But MoM changed all that. I'm very happy to get some might on my gear now, because time and again I find myself in situations where I 1) Have one or more mobs in my face, or 2) I am ranged tanking something big and nasty, like the two EM tentacles during the Watcher fight. And at those times, I really appreciate the added might. Not for the added damage to melee, that's miniscule and only adds 0.066% damage per might or thereabouts. No, I like it for the Common damage mitigation and Parry rating it gives me. Both very very useful. They make me live longer. And I like that in a stat. So I don't really get the anger directed at the might. Agi is capped for most of us, we're sitting at 5.5k plus morale, and I have more than enough power to carry my own in solo and most grouping situations. Sure, I wouldn't mind more Will, but not at the expense of survivability.

If we are going to talk about silly things, let's talk about the +50 duration to Low cut. Now that's silly.... Unlike the Great bow set, which actually has it uses and helps offset the powerissues (Intent concentration/NH cooldown).

[velimirius]

omg on new set +40might and just +20 agility omg im not a warrior im a hunter...

[nightbyday]

I didn't roll a hunter to melle. i didn't roll a hunter to be a wannabe champion (i saw the comment about 'hit like a truck'... err yeah right compare a hunters melee skill to melee class skill) i willl agree load on the might and you can see your melee hits starting to hit almost as hard as base ranged hits.

It seems to me Dev are starting to force hunters to melee, maybe to make the trapper and hunter legendries be used . (RUBBISH all the hunter legendary 5 sets are poor).

#shrug# some thing is better than nothing and might does help with common damage but what i want is W I L L please, hunters can then burn through there power pool but if they don't have a high ICPR (not that many do) it won't be replaced that quick. I think the idea is to give hunters some close range surviveability with out boosting ranged dps.

If i am totally honest about it all.. i just don't care any more, they nerfed my hunter heavy, they nerfed my captain support skills, they are going to nerf my minstrel, next they will nerf my LM... time to roll a RK or wraden i guess :D (get them nerfed to ha ha ha).

[Flambergius]

I don't mind Might in top-end gear. Agility and Fate will be effectively capped at that point, and at least my Vitality will soon follow. Will would better, naturally.

[Malindruil]

Might for a Hunter is as much use as an ash-tray on a motor cycle.

I would rather see more agility, fate, will and icpr buffs than adding stuff I have no use for.
We are ranged fighters, and most high-level Hunters can range kill a mob before it even gets to them, so melee is not required.

But we all know, if they start giving Hunter gear stuff that will actually benefit a Hunter. Almost every other class will complain, even more, that the Hunters are OP, like they do already. Forcing more Hunter Nerfs.

I would really like to see what they intend to do with this so-called "Month of the Hunter"

[nightbyday]

most high-level Hunters can range kill a mob before it even gets to them,"

Thats not really the case any more...

[European]

I don't prefer might either, but the might number is fully added to your common mitigtion, which, for now anyway, helps against a lot of damage, at least untill they start making mobs that do more varied damage types again.

[Turukano]

I dislike Might, I try to keep it below the 100.


But MoM changed all that. I'm very happy to get some might on my gear now, because time and again I find myself in situations where I 1) Have one or more mobs in my face, or 2) I am ranged tanking something big and nasty, like the two EM tentacles during the Watcher fight. And at those times, I really appreciate the added might. Not for the added damage to melee, that's miniscule and only adds 0.066% damage per might or thereabouts. No, I like it for the Common damage mitigation and Parry rating it gives me. Both very very useful. They make me live longer. And I like that in a stat. So I don't really get the anger directed at the might. Agi is capped for most of us, we're sitting at 5.5k plus morale, and I have more than enough power to carry my own in solo and most grouping situations. Sure, I wouldn't mind more Will, but not at the expense of survivability.


As far as I remember Might doesn't give you increased chance to Parry, Agility does. Agility also increases your evade chance.
Concerning the common damage mitigation, if I guess right the Tentacles to Acid damage, I might be wrong on this because I never did the Watcher, and never will: can't bother getting a set with more than 100 Might.

PS. I have more Max power than Max Morale

[Flambergius]

As far as I remember Might doesn't give you increased chance to Parry, Agility does. Agility also increases your evade chance.


Might and Agility both add to Parry. Agility adds to Evade double. Might also adds to Common Mitigation, it does not add to Acid Mitigation or any other non-common damage mitigation (Will does).

[lihanaamari]

I can understand the scepticism. In the traditional role of SoA, we stood back and delivered damage from afar. No need to move in and risk taking a beating, that was for the CMPs/GRDs.

IIRC there was a guy who tanked the whole CD on a hunter in the SoA era. Burglars and hunters were running around with some truly "awesome" avoidance back then. This is one of the reasons why Turbine gave up on +percentage buffs on skills and gear.

I'm still on the opinion that the might is there only because they couldn't think of anything else to put in there. Giving away too much fate and will in the set would trivialize power consumption and group play. Threat and power, the former you always have too much, the latter never enough.. and never will.

[agoracy_]

So we have 2 facts..

1. Champions are being nerfed (no need to enter in details, -30% incoming healing while in fervor)

2. Lot's of might on the next hunter armor set.

All champ characters will be deleted, and hunters will replace them. With the book 9, they will give RK the possibility of using a bow and better healing (full healing while in DPS mode, to be more precisely), so they will delete hunters as well. In book 10, RKers will be renamed "Titanium cannons" (from the actual glass cannons) because they will be able to wear heavy armor and shield, so guardians/wardens will be useless (and deleted). Ministrels, and lore masters will be present in the game, but mostly for role playing, kudos Turbine for respecting Tolkiens universe so much!

Well, enough with predictions,
Nostradamus out.

[Jimbe-Burli]

I'm probally one of the few hunters that likes getting into melee, I think might is usefull, but shouldn't be focused over agility of course. Sometimes I have no choice but to melee when an enemy pops out of nowhere and I have nowhere to run in confined areas. Maybe its not as usefull in a raid but it could be - Barbed Arrow + Scourging Blow can be quite effective.
I'd like to to nerf my ranged effectiveness and improve melee damage, but maybe i'm just insane :)
and give us 2-handed swords, I don't like dual-wielding :D

(Your probally thinking- why diddn't I choose a champ if I want to get into melee)

[Eorthor]

Might and Agility both add to Parry. Agility adds to Evade double. Might also adds to Common Mitigation, it does not add to Acid Mitigation or any other non-common damage mitigation (Will does).

*Vitality adds to None Common sources not will.

As for the might, I run a melee build on my hunter, well from time to time I do, so there being a lot of might helps for that for me.

With my melee set up I sit at more burg like stats, 500ish Might, 540 agility, and 500ish Vitality, and 5.3k morale and 2.1k power.

I personally think Might is a good thing, MOST mobs hit for common damage, so any reduction in incoming damage is a good bonus, not to mention parry is good, although with Swift Stroke it buffs to the cap anyway.

And to be honest, In my traditional group set up, I still like to keep things balanced, I don't over exceed on any stat and I don't have any stat dwindling, I sit at around 310 might, 520 agility, 470 vit, 320 will and 380ish fate along with 5,096 morale and 3,095 power.

All stats Help in the long run, the way I see it, you prioritize on the overall number off buffs, for example, Agility gives avoidance, Crit and ranged damage, so thats obviously a Win stat for hunters, might on the other hand, gives Common Mit (needed) Parry chance (not so needed for a range class but useful none the less) and melee damage (in most cases not a required stat), So you obviously don't want as much might in a traditional Set up, BUT you don't want to neglect it entirely.

[OMWiener]

So what is your icpr in both setups?

[Sidamos]

I don't really understand why ppl complain about the might on this set...

It's -19 might compared to the watcher-set. If you want to see a table go to the german
hunter forum.

The only thing that really bothers me is the large loss of fate.

[OMWiener]

I don't really understand why ppl complain about the might on this set...

It's -19 might compared to the watcher-set. If you want to see a table go to the german
hunter forum.

The only thing that really bothers me is the large loss of fate.

cuz people expect an imporved set :P. People expect the devs to learn from mistakes :P

[Telaron70]

Me, I think that might is probably the least useful stat, but I'll take it rather than nothing & I reckon that is the only choice we'll get - Might or FA.

Seems to me that the Devs want us to really pay attention to power issues & keep us out of perma-strength stance (actually I reckon threat does that perfectly adequately, but what do I know) hence the lack of Will & BoR nerf. They really aren't gonna give us much more in the way of other stats cos we are pretty well looked after in that respect.

It's pretty easy for a high end geared Hunter to get 600 agi, around 5k morale & 2.8k+ power, but probably with low (750-ish) icpr. Not saying it's easy to actually get all that gear but neither should it be. Drop the morale & power pools a little & 900+ icpr is fairly easy. In my experience, you can't have both - but I still keep trying ;)

I reckon that they think to have both at same time would be OP. I don't really mind juggling gear & traits a little depending on what I think I'll need for a given situation.

I'd still like some dps back tho pretty please :D

[Sidamos]

I don't really see why might on it is a mistake. However stats are also a way of class
balancing.

[nicbass]

At least it has the same Agility bonus as Might, however I think Might is pretty useless but, to me, the main mystery is the bonus for having 5 of the set - Low Cut Duration? Who cares? Fair enough if it was a new PvMP set for the Ettens etc.

It would be nice if a dev would post on either of the Hunters forums to explain this (amongst other decisions), but all we get are attempts at pacification by Sapience etc...

[Eorthor]

So what is your icpr in both setups?

In my melee/PVP/solo set up, it's at around 570, in my PVE set up it's at around 800, though I do also have another ICPR set up which puts it above 1k but at expense of quite abit of morale and some agility.

cuz people expect an imporved set :P. People expect the devs to learn from mistakes :P

Mistake? what mistake?
You see the added might as a mistake, in my opinion it's a good stat to have.

[Scatha the Worm]

Mistake? what mistake?
You see the added might as a mistake, in my opinion it's a good stat to have.

I think it is a mistake for a raiding set to have a lot of might, when a hunter's role in a raid is to deal damage at range while taking as little damage as possible. Even when you consider the Vile Maw, might counts for nothing in mitigation, since all damage is non-common. The last set bonus is PvP oriented, not even solo oriented, and all that +power could be translated into at least some will to help with hunter down time while soloing trash.

Might for the soloing hunter is of relative importance, but I still think will (power pool and OOC regen) is much better. For raiding, it's definitely the most useless stat available.

[OMWiener]

I think it is a mistake for a raiding set to have a lot of might, when a hunter's role in a raid is to deal damage at range while taking as little damage as possible. Even when you consider the Vile Maw, might counts for nothing in mitigation, since all damage is non-common. The last set bonus is PvP oriented, not even solo oriented, and all that +power could be translated into at least some will to help with hunter down time while soloing trash.


Might for the soloing hunter is of relative importance, but I still think will (power pool and OOC regen) is much better. For raiding, it's definitely the most useless stat available.

@Eorthor: For this reason quoted here. It's a raiding set. It should boost raiding abilities.

[nightbyday]

@Eorthor: For this reason quoted here. It's a raiding set. It should boost raiding abilities.

i am going with the worm on this its PvP :D that or apush to hunters to use melee skills to prove thier 5 legendary triats set ups do work ;p

[Hardowise]

might is pointless as is 90% of the melee skills, id remove all might and swap it for other stats if i could.

even toe to toe range will devastate melee damage, if u get multiple mobs on u thats what NH and thorns are for :)

[Turukano]

I finally see the reason why Turbine does this.
-Hunters are not the best anymore at dpsing anywhere/anygear
-Hunters get loads of might (common mitigation/block chance)

The role of the Hunter is about to be changed!
We're going to be a ranged-tank of ranged mobs with common damage!
I bet hunters will get shields in book 9.

This way we will look like Wardens (tanking+low ranged dps), but then way crappier.
But Wardens are way different, they have gambits and Hunters don't. So there won't be a problem about that.

[agoracy_]

I finally see the reason why Turbine does this.
-Hunters are not the best anymore at dpsing anywhere/anygear
-Hunters get loads of might (common mitigation/block chance)

The role of the Hunter is about to be changed!
We're going to be a ranged-tank of ranged mobs with common damage!
I bet hunters will get shields in book 9.

This way we will look like Wardens (tanking+low ranged dps), but then way crappier.
But Wardens are way different, they have gambits and Hunters don't. So there won't be a problem about that.

Ehh... I think this was sarcasm? Cause your sayings are pure blasphemy of how the hunter should really work. Ranged tank? maybe.. about the rest.. I have some doubts. And shields?!

[Scatha the Worm]

Ranged Tanking is certainly something a warden is probably best at. The Watcher's tentacles need to be tanked by hunters because it is a DPS race, and hunters are the only class good enough at holding aggro from range, but we lack a lot of survivability options to actually fulfill such a role: No self-heals, induction based, no taunts, low avoidance... etc.

I guess this is what happens when you have 3 classes on the same asigned primary role...

[Turukano]

Yes it was sarcasm.

[Spearweilder]

Although with the 120 radiance you are doing 111% damage and getting 112% heals. It's like getting in endurance but without any damage penalties which isn't too bad.

[Amoramay Swiftarrow]

Might isnt that bad of a stat, I am currently running around on about 430 did have a bit more but recently got a new off-hand weapon and lost 20. 430 isnt SO much i do know of hunters that have more but i dont wanna sacrifice too much agility/vitality/fate to build up my might any more.

My reason behind having a nice pool of might is of course for the melee and the extra bit of resistance. When it comes to it every hunter will probably end up in melee when soloing so the extra melee damage is really useful. I do hit quite hard in melee which is why i like to get nice hard hitting melee weapons, but each to their own i suppose. Everyone plays differently and there is no right or wrong way to build your hunter.

:o:o