Book 8 fixes...

[Scatha the Worm]

So Book 8 comes out, and even tho there are absolutely no news for hunters (which is probably because they won't touch a thing), they are heavily nerfing champs survivality in DPS stance and RKs damage/power.

What the hell are they thinking? If they have to nerf/buff/nerf/nerf/nerf all the time at the main DPS classes, isn't it clear enough THAT SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH THE CONTENT?

Are they trying to throw their own game to the trash? They are practically ****ing off half the game population with the total amount of "balancing" done since MoM launch.

If this goes on, we will still be a broken class, but we're sitting in the bench with more company than just burglars now...

Turbine developer manual premise:

Make content harder by nerfing well performing classes

[Scappydog]

From the Bullroarer patch notes:

Hunter
■The legacy "Strength Quick Shot Slow" is now properly buffing Quick Shot's slow.
■Fire bolts will no longer remain in the Hunter's hand after using Improved Swift Bow - Ablaze.


So unless anything else is added/changed we have so much to look forward to.

Guess that means we are WAI.

[Lenin_]

From the Bullroarer patch notes:

Hunter
■The legacy "Strength Quick Shot Slow" is now properly buffing Quick Shot's slow.
■Fire bolts will no longer remain in the Hunter's hand after using Improved Swift Bow - Ablaze.


So unless anything else is added/changed we have so much to look forward to.

Guess that means we are WAI.

OMG, so many fixes to our broken skills and tools. NOT!

Just..... lol'd.....

[MéLAnoR]

epic fail ..
im glad im not wasting my summer.
though there are nice addings to the game regarding legendary barter system some fix to gift boxes and better vendor UI plus they re watching other classes and trying to balance them ( yet only nerfes nerfes nerfes) Maybe book8 raid turns out fun?

fact : THE WAY THEY LEFT HUNTER MEANS THERE IS NO DEVELOPER WORKING OVER HUNTER CLASS.YES IT IS TRUE CAUSE THE FACT THAT I CAN COUNT YOU DOZEN THINGS BROKEN YET WE SEE NO FIX.
Wish we had graal ; he is so good over dynamic combat system and communication with players.
anyways good luck to those hunters out there ; my heart with ya ^^
/goodbye

[Aroril]

wow talk about overreacting :). But I really wished that they would have fixed the Bow Chants or at least posted some kind of explanation for them.

So you really don't think that rune keepers needed a nerf? You know, its not even a nerf, just changes to some skills and a more balanced dps output. They will still be an extremely good dps class.

The changes to champs was made so that you could not run the entire content with a fervour champ tanking. Their survivability is DPS stance has not changed as you should not even get hit when doing group contend as you will have a guardian/warden tanking. All self heals are not effected by the - Incoming Healing so when you are solo there will be no change. "Heavily nerfed" as you put it is just taking out of thin air.

[Silmahad]

If I read about the Hunter patch notes, the nerf to Champions and the Runkeeper patchnotes (with the so called "nerf"...), I get the strange feeling, that the RK patchnotes are still incomplete.

I miss a sentence like:" We decided to change the title of the class "Runekeeper" to "Warlock". This will be a great help for new players, coming from WoW, for orientation in choosing the actual godclass in LotRO."

[Telaron70]

hmmm... I don't think the Champs are very happy, but I can at least see the reasoning behind their "nerf". Burgs are getting some much needed TLC, Mini's damage nerfed a little & RK's spike damage is being reduced but otherwise it looks like a reasonable balancing of the class, upping power costs a bit. I'm sure many RK's feared worse than this. IMO this is what should have happened to Hunters with book 7, a reasonable response to somewhat OTT dps, but instead we got a bit of a hammering.

It makes an awful lot of difference when the Dev pops up & explains the changes like ZC & Graalx2 have done for RK's, Burgs & Champs. Even if, like in the Champs case, it seems like bad news. At least it makes you think there is someone in your corner. On Hunters there is nothing but silence. Is anyone even working on Hunters?

Glad they fixed that fiery bolt thing tho'. I was about to quit over that :rolleyes:

Aside from the class balancing there are some nice tweaks to the rest of the game I think, but I would dearly like to see the LI system overhauled

[MéLAnoR]

It makes an awful lot of difference when the Dev pops up & explains the changes like ZC & Graalx2 have done for RK's, Burgs & Champs. Even if, like in the Champs case, it seems like bad news. At least it makes you think there is someone in your corner. On Hunters there is nothing but silence. Is anyone even working on Hunters?

lol
There is no DEV appointed over hunter class.Dangerdan posted his last message by january and it was not on hunter boards ; yeah we know he doesnt post much but I BET A GOOD DEAL OF MONEY he is gone.Long ago ZC has taken over his job for dealing burgs too.
Additionaly a very good dev Hakai is gone too.
Non-officialy there is no dev working over hunter just content devs and community officers post on hunter boards.And who cares ? Frak hunters they have paid enough to feed the company the future is warlocks and mages look far east you ll see the $$

[James_Ross]

I was surprised there weren't *any* things for hunters to look forward to in the prelim notes, I'm tired of having being relegated to an off-DPS taxi.

[Telaron70]

lol
There is no DEV appointed over hunter class..........

..... Frak hunters they have paid enough to feed the company the future is warlocks and mages look far east you ll see the $$

In that case I want magic arrows ;)

[Scappydog]

In that case I want magic arrows ;)

What you are getting is a +50% Duration to Low Cut for having 5 pieces of the new Rad Set :(

[MéLAnoR]

What you are getting is a +50% Duration to Low Cut for having 5 pieces of the new Rad Set :(
too bad you cant self apply low cut :D
what you need legs? your not a on the move class you have to stand still so you can shoot :rolleyes:

[Scappydog]

too bad you cant self apply low cut :D
what you need legs? your not a on the move class you have to stand still so you can shoot :rolleyes:

The only new skills I would really to see on my toolbar are 'cancel subscription' for the low times and 'renew subscription' for the few good months after an expansion.

[MéLAnoR]

The only new skills I would really to see on my toolbar are 'cancel subscription' for the low times and 'renew subscription' for the few good months after an expansion.im a lifetimer so havent cancelled my subscription but luckily due to real life excuses im not playing this bul**** at least 5 months.Maybe they realise their mistake till then?
i dont care ; if they won't fix things by then ill cancel my fiance's monthly subscription.
Hope other hunters put some attitude towards this frakking treatment too!

[agoracy_]

im a lifetimer so havent cancelled my subscription but luckily due to real life excuses im not playing this bul**** at least 5 months.Maybe they realise their mistake till then?
i dont care ; if they won't fix things by then ill cancel my fiance's monthly subscription.
Hope other hunters put some attitude towards this frakking treatment too!

I am happy I don't have life time sub for my gf as well... And I have payed a visit in the US forum, they are unhappy as hell... Never seen this lack of communication between devs and players... At the company I am working for we have assigned someone special for explaining changes in the game(s) we are producing, we are getting feedback from players and also, explaining our reasons when something is about to change.. but oh well, we can't have it all...

There was a guy saying that "we are shouting in a dark tunnel" and I start to feel this way as well...

Anyway, these are some very earlier notes, some things may change until the release, so let's hope for some improvement (hopefully, not another nerf bat for hunters, do you know they could give cooldown for our travelling skills, imagine this "guide to bree: 2h 23 mins left":eek:)

I would rather wait to see the lvl cap raise and hopefully, they will manage to keep me in the game... At this moment all I want is to explore the whole content, and I am almost there.. If I will not be satisfied with the new changes, I guess I can try some other games as well, LotRO is not the god of all MMO's after all :rolleyes:.

[Silmahad]

What you are getting is a +50% Duration to Low Cut for having 5 pieces of the new Rad Set :(

Ít could be worse, they could give us a + 5% chance of bleed damage for lowcut (12 points of bleed damage every 3 seconds for 30 seconds...hmm maybe only 10, 12 may be too strong), + 50% low cut duration might be overpowered in PvM.

I appreciate the 160+ Might on the new set, it will be a great help to go the path of the offtank, the DD role others can fill better.

[/sarcasm off]

It might be a good idea to have a look on my old WoW accounts in future.

[Scappydog]

I've been there for the past few weeks ( WoW that is )..hoping for something good for us in Book 8. Looks like I'll be staying there for the foreseeable future. Its quite refreshing after being away from it for so long, 2 full bars of useful skills on my Hunter.

[Neer]

http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/4937/hunter.jpg

yeah, awesome set...

/angry

[Swampster]

http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/4937/hunter.jpg

yeah, awesome set...

/angry

I mean seriously... do they role a dice to decide what to put in an armour set, or are they just sat there laughing their t*ts off over how much they can screw certain classes over for 6 months at a time.

[Emli]

So you really don't think that rune keepers needed a nerf?


You know, its not even a nerf, just changes to some skills and a more balanced dps output.


.

Maybe, but just for the crit multis.

Lol, not even a nerf... then I guess you can call b7 for hunters as "changing some skills for a more balanced dps output" aswell.

Epic conclusion: Base damage increased. "Closing Remarks" damage buffs decreased from 75% to 50%. Critical damage decreased. Net DPS of this skill should only be mildly affected. The highs will not be as high and the lows not as low.

Sounds good on paper, but in reality, the base damage increase was so miniscule and the reducing of damage from the buffs so big that b8 EC is doing less damage with buffs up even on non-crit than it was in b7. And on crits and devs the hits are wayyy smaller than book 7. This skill was hammered hard by the bat.

Ceaseless Argument: Damage and power cost decreased.

Same here, the reduced power cost may seem decent at first, but CA was already so low power cost that a point here or there won't do anything, but reducing the damage of it means that we now have an "auto-attack" that costs power but does under 200 damage.

"Martial Training" now increases morale by 300.

Not too bad, although can't see why this was needed, RK's were already the lowest moral eclass out there, why lower it even further?

If it had been just that it would have been okay, as lightning was never ment to be a grouping spec and didn't effect end-game much.

But these were completely uncalled for and are really endangering the dps role of a RK:

"All Rune-keeper damage skills have had a slight increase in power cost."
"Essence of Flame and Smoldering Wrath have had their power costs increased more significantly."
"Writ of Fire and Essence of Flame have had small damage reductions. This tweak is fairly minor, and the skills are still highly potent. "

So everything increasing in power cost, like we didn't have power problems before with all that spam to keep our DoT's up. An extra power cost increase for our best two skills and on top of all that a damage recution on our bread and butter DoT's. And power is a huge problem for RK's because when a HNT runs out of power he can still do SOME dps, auto-attacks add up, but a RK doesn't have an auto attack, all we do costs power.

Not only did they increase all our power cost, they also failed to fix our bugged fire trait line, which means we aren't getting the -9% power cost we should be getting from slotting 4 fire. And didn't fix the bug with relics which means that RK's are getting no damage boost at all to their DOT's from adamant gems of dreams, meaning we lose out on 10% of our DPS.

[MéLAnoR]

thanks for some infos about b8 cnanges over runekeeper but
better not discuss runekeeper here.
This thread is all about the lack of communication and development processregarding hunter and its ultimate consequences = hunters leaving..

[Gilrob]

Hunter
■The legacy "Strength Quick Shot Slow" is now properly buffing Quick Shot's slow.
■Fire bolts will no longer remain in the Hunter's hand after using Improved Swift Bow - Ablaze.

OMG!!!! i have been waiting for that since moria came !!!!!!

[Flambergius]

I'm not with most of you on the doom and gloom ... but let's not go there this time. I'd just like to note one thing.

One of the reasons we felt, the main reason some have said (myself included), that hunters were nerfed too much in Book 7 was that they were doing changes from many different directions. Hunter-specific changes, LI dps change, tactical resistances and RK beef up - you know the list - all combined to change the dps landscape drastically. Though their intention was to take a sizable chunk out of the hunter dps, I'm sure there were quite a few "oh, ****" moments among the developers when the current picture came clear.

After having said that their main error was to try to do too much, fiddle with too many variable at the same it, I can't bring myself to any amount of anger when this time they leave one the main variables alone.

[Scappydog]

Well if the Devs had an 'oh sh*t' moment after Book 7 then Book 8 would have been an opportunity to try and address some of those issues. During the same period they have managed to do a fair bit of tweaking to other classes as is apparent from the Bullroarer patch notes, but virtually nothing for us. It makes you wonder if we are now WAI and sfa will done to address the various bugs/issues that people have been highlighting.

If a Turbine Dev can respond to feedback, monitoring etc on one class that had a fairly large boost in Book 7, work on some changes, engage with the players about what he was planning and then give a good post about what was coming for them in Book 8, then what conclusion do we draw about our own class and Dev?

It is the total lack of communication that makes people bring out 'tin foil hat' ideas, conspiracy theories and makes them feel like they are endlessly beating their heads against a brick wall. If our class is now where it is meant to be and nothing is likely to be done to it in the near future then why can't a Dev say so?

[Swampster]

If our class is now where it is meant to be and nothing is likely to be done to it in the near future then why can't a Dev say so?

Probably because they're worried that if they confirmed that our current state is as intended and the way we are staying.. there'd a mass exodus of hunters to different classes, or even worse.. out of the game completely; which would upset everyone as they'd all have to walk everywhere. I mean just look at the buff we are getting, stacking travel rations to 100, it's clear what our current purpose is!

that is if they don't give all the other classes fast travel ability in the near future.. :rolleyes:

[Scappydog]

Aye, information allows people to make a choice about whether to stay or not. Keeping them in the dark and feeding them a little hope now and again will ensure the subs roll in for a few more months.

[Flambergius]

Well if the Devs had an 'oh sh*t' moment after Book 7 then Book 8 would have been an opportunity to try and address some of those issues.

I probably wasn't very clear, but I didn't mean that the errors were made in hunter changes, but that the complete picture - the total effect of all the changes - couldn't have been what they were going for. Whether that means hunters are WAI is another matter. My point was simply that when optimizing a system you really should try to change as few things as possible at one time. Thus, there is merit to leaving hunters as they are, even if the devs thought there might be room for additional changes.

Naturally, the implicit assumption above is that hunters aren't that far off from WAI, relative to other classes.

[European]

Low cut duration buff? Methinks they're still desperately trying to find some way of making players use Fleet Stance. Good luck with that. LOL