Don't buy Improved Swift bow skill (if you havent)

[MéLAnoR]

The 3rd shot is not worth over an Auto-attack ; sure the crit multipliers are bigger on skills but %15 crit chance at max makes it still worse in even short term group fights.
SS below :
http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt117/PointedEarMeL/ScreenShot00299.jpg
ISB hits : 411/416/224 each non-crit
follows
AA : 251 non crit
further without skill use
AA :376 normal critted

[Sidamos]

You can't see it like this. It's abit difficult to figure it out but atm I would say the
animation time of SB and ISB is the same.
That means even if the 3rd arrow has the same damage like an autoshot or less,
it's an addition because you don't fire your auto-shot faster with SB.

pew-pew (x time) + aa < pew-pew-pew (x time) + aa

[Juss]

You can't see it like this. It's abit difficult to figure it out but atm I would say the
animation time of SB and ISB is the same.
That means even if the 3rd arrow has the same damage like an autoshot or less,
it's an addition because you don't fire your auto-shot faster with SB.

pew-pew (x time) + aa < pew-pew-pew (x time) + aa

Exactly ..

[OMWiener]

You can't see it like this. It's abit difficult to figure it out but atm I would say the
animation time of SB and ISB is the same.
That means even if the 3rd arrow has the same damage like an autoshot or less,
it's an addition because you don't fire your auto-shot faster with SB.

pew-pew (x time) + aa < pew-pew-pew (x time) + aa


Could be wrong here, but the entire point is that there isn't an auto-attack after ISB anymore...That's why people are comparing the final shot from ISB with an auto-attack.
Each attack does three shots.

Which is better? complicated matter i would say. But that's the entire point isn't it? We shouldn't be doubting the usefulness of an 'improved' skill now should we? An improved skill should just be that: "improved", not "it could be better in some situations using some bow and some oil" :)

[Sidamos]

Could be wrong here, but the entire point is that there isn't an auto-attack after ISB anymore...

hu? I always get an auto-shot after an ISB...

[OMWiener]

hu? I always get an auto-shot after an ISB...

then i'm wrong ^^. Honestly never took much attention to it and have been on a break for a couple of weeks now.

[nightbyday]

The right speed weapon will give the auto attack. I am sure my level 59 X-Bow always has an auti shot right after ISB has finished will have to check.

[erei]

i make an AA juste after ISB with my crossbow, im not sure if i do the same with my bow.
Actually SB or ISB is one of the most nerfed skill we got, along with merciful shot, not sure if i will continue to play both of them (that's a shame, it was my favourites skills to this day).

[James_Ross]

Essentially your auto attack is timed irrespective of the skills you're hitting, if its timed to come up during a skill animation then it doesn't happen but the timing is unaffected and continues regardless until it is allowed to happen.

So unless the animation time for SB and ISB are *precisely* the same, then the auto-attack that occurs immediately after SB will not happen. If people have different experiences of this it will be down to bow speed (= aa speed ticks) but most people will be going for the slowest possible bow anyway.

[Erhnam]

I think this can be interesting for you :)

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=258695&page=4

Or more concise:
http://forums.lotro.com/showpost.php?p=3579652&postcount=47

[Scatha the Worm]

I think this can be interesting for you :)

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=258695&page=4

Or more concise:
http://forums.lotro.com/showpost.php?p=3579652&postcount=47

Those numbers are counted in frames... But for those that are used to do calculations, it's a valid time measurement method as any if it's constant throughout the experiment.

SB Total Time = 86
ISB Total Time = 106

ISB is 23% slower than SB.
The damage increase of ISB over SB is around 27%

Soo.... It's a really really low improvement. In the domains of a 3-5% increase in damage per second, over about 3-4 seconds. And needful haste SB/ISB turns around the difference making ISB worse than SB from the damage per second perspective.

I'm agreeing with OMWiener, if it takes lab work to be able to measure how good an "improved" skill is over the vanilla version, then it's a neglectable improvement.

[MéLAnoR]

I think this can be interesting for you :)

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=258695&page=4

Or more concise:
http://forums.lotro.com/showpost.php?p=3579652&postcount=47
Thanks for the link very interesting but not surprising datas there :
we re not comparing two skills we're comparing the total results of gaining an improved said to be almost 45-50 level gap skill improvement !

and in this discussion of course auto-attack and other skill que issues shall be involved.
I suggest you read here :
http://forums.lotro.com/showpost.php?p=3581999&postcount=52

finally if we re discussing a skill improvement over an paid expansion after almost 2 years and 50 levels and the difference is discussed whether improved or got worse or even got very slightly better then there is a major problem here.

[Erhnam]

I'm agreeing with OMWiener, if it takes lab work to be able to measure how good an "improved" skill is over the vanilla version, then it's a neglectable improvement.

Indeed, I must agree with that. ISB really needs some kind of buff :/