Scatha the Worm
04-04-2009, 03:17 AM
So finally I've ended a series of tests, and I think I have enough data to have some preliminary conclusions. The sample-size is still small to call these accurate results, but it is still respectable. I won't be posting screenshots yet because it would be a lot. I'll edit in time and link but not display the images of the parsed data to keep the post clean.
I had a constant build during these tests, no changes in equipment from pre-bk7 to post-bk7.
The numbers that matter:
Critical Rating: 3858
Critical Chance: 13.9%
Devastate Critical Chance: 4.6%
ICPR:794
Agility: 573
Trait setup: (Critical Eye, Deadly Precision, Swift and True) Bowmaster, (Arrow Storm, Strong Draw, Fast Draw) Huntsmen, for S:S runs last trait was True Shot and for S:P it was Enduring Precision
LI: lvl 60 Third Age 2.4 speed Bow rank 9 (16%) Induction Critical Multiplier, rank 8 (14.5%) Focus Critical Multipler. All other legacies uninteresting (ie garbage) damage-wise.
Results follow
DPS tests:
Precision Runs: (starting from =< 1 focus, no merciful)
Mob sample size: 98/99 mobs
Pre-Book 7 run:
358 DPS
ISB 398.01 Avg Damage
QS 318.16 Avg Damage
Post-Book 7 run:
263 DPS
ISB 288.82 Avg Damage
QS 262.01 Avg Damage
DPS reduction: 26%
ISB damage reduction: 27%
QS damage reduction: 18%
Strength Runs: (full focus, merciful used)
Mob sample size: 52/57 mobs
Pre-Book 7 run:
580 DPS
ISB 525.54 Avg Damage
QS 407.36 Avg Damage
Post-Book 7 run:
390 DPS
ISB 352.45 Avg Damage
QS 307.12 Avg Damage
DPS reduction: 33%
ISB damage reduction: 33%
QS damage reduction: 25%
BotR numbers:
BotR 15,54 Avg power return (828 power ticks)
BotR 12.01 Avg power return (1110 power ticks)
BotR efficiency reduction: 23%
Quick Shot Critical Rating in Precision:
Pre-Book 7:
Total Hits: 207
Critical: 31
Devastate Critical: 12
Critical Chance: 15.0%
Devastate Critical Chance: 5.8%
Post-Book 7:
Total Hits: 258
Critical: 34
Devastate Critical: 21
Critical Chance: 13.2%
Devastate Critical Chance: 8.1%
All data combined:
Total Hits: 465
Critical: 65
Devastate Critical: 33
Critical Chance: 14.0%
Devastate Critical Chance: 7.1%
Comments:
As suspected, 4/5 bowmaster damage has gone down for > 30%. This doesn't worry me much, as it's for solo work, and that is just ok. What I did see was at least a minor increase in BPE of the mobs, but numbers for these require too much work to gather. 3/5 bowmaster should also see a significant damage decrease, probably very close to 30%, perhaps a little less.
The power usage is insane with 4/5 Bowmaster. The lack of Will in hunter gear hurts bad the recovery time between fights, and the BotR nerf (with a similar low provision of Fate) hurts ICPR a lot too, considering it takes longer to kill stuff.
The +40% Power cost is just too much. Every class can now burst DPS similarly, yet hunters are forced to take some significant pauses between fights because of this. Two mobs toghether will drain you dry, 3 and you might need to use a pot. 4/5 bowmaster still unloads out very good damage, but it just isn't gameplay friendly.
One thing that worries me is the unclear nerf to QS, which seems to be present only in the S:S test. 18% reduction agrees with the LI DPS nerf alone, but in S:S I got a 25%... It would be really nice if a Turbine Dev said something about this, but with the attention we get in these forums... I won't even dream about it.
S:P dropped for 26% in these tests. Of course this doesn't tell much in itself, but at least I can say that the feel of Precision with both Enduring Precision and Deadly Precision was quite nice, but the power consumption was high even then. It is clear that to sustain this in a group even with a mad stacking of ICPR and Fate, we'll need consumables/LMs/CJs assistance (I'll try it anyway since I still haven't made my peace with being forced into tS:E). The Miss+Block/Evade reduced considerably, making it a very reliable and predicable experience, as well as seeming to have more crits than in Strength (which is due to the larger number of shots succesfully landing the target).
A few words on the increased critical chance of Quick Shot in S:P... From the data I've gathered I don't see it.
There are 3 options
1) It isn't there
2) It is too damn small to make any real difference difference
3) It is in the form of critical rating (which is the same as 2)
I'm assuming it is option 3, since devastating critical chance does score higher, but the sample size should be a lot bigger to be able to measure it through devastates. This is the 3rd crappy design mistake (or decision... wouldn't it be nice if it was a mistake? it would mean we have a chance of having it fixed) regarding crit enhacements for hunter skills.
Regarding BotR... We have a 23% reduction on our power regen tool. Assuming we use a skill every 1.5s, before Book 7 slotting BotR would mean 620 ICPR. After Book 7 it is 480 ICPR. That is a net loss of 140 ICPR. A major hit to the sustained DPS department, and the nerf that is the one driving us the most back into cookie cutter builds.
ISB... It isn't a good DPS skill anymore. Although it was traited it just wasn't delivering as well as old QS->PS. This just kills the nice balance between focus and bow skills we were using, putting the DPS efficient skill rotation back on power and focus stress, making the power and crit issues even larger (since focus skills are more power expensive and a lot of our focus income is from now harder to get crits).
Regarding RoA or PS... I've done separate tests before Book 7 looking at the convenience of the traits for DPS considerations, but I will be repeating those since everything has changed quite a bit. The first results showed about a 5% average increase in PS damage for True Shot(and it probably would be better on bosses, which have high mitigations), and about 15% average damage increase to Rain of Arrows (but on bosses it would do worse because of level difference, crit protection and mitigations).
COMING SOON.... 5 minute sustained DPS test on tanked mob (or ettens high rank creep overhealed and unbuffed) with comparison data against a champion and a runekeeper
I had a constant build during these tests, no changes in equipment from pre-bk7 to post-bk7.
The numbers that matter:
Critical Rating: 3858
Critical Chance: 13.9%
Devastate Critical Chance: 4.6%
ICPR:794
Agility: 573
Trait setup: (Critical Eye, Deadly Precision, Swift and True) Bowmaster, (Arrow Storm, Strong Draw, Fast Draw) Huntsmen, for S:S runs last trait was True Shot and for S:P it was Enduring Precision
LI: lvl 60 Third Age 2.4 speed Bow rank 9 (16%) Induction Critical Multiplier, rank 8 (14.5%) Focus Critical Multipler. All other legacies uninteresting (ie garbage) damage-wise.
Results follow
DPS tests:
Precision Runs: (starting from =< 1 focus, no merciful)
Mob sample size: 98/99 mobs
Pre-Book 7 run:
358 DPS
ISB 398.01 Avg Damage
QS 318.16 Avg Damage
Post-Book 7 run:
263 DPS
ISB 288.82 Avg Damage
QS 262.01 Avg Damage
DPS reduction: 26%
ISB damage reduction: 27%
QS damage reduction: 18%
Strength Runs: (full focus, merciful used)
Mob sample size: 52/57 mobs
Pre-Book 7 run:
580 DPS
ISB 525.54 Avg Damage
QS 407.36 Avg Damage
Post-Book 7 run:
390 DPS
ISB 352.45 Avg Damage
QS 307.12 Avg Damage
DPS reduction: 33%
ISB damage reduction: 33%
QS damage reduction: 25%
BotR numbers:
BotR 15,54 Avg power return (828 power ticks)
BotR 12.01 Avg power return (1110 power ticks)
BotR efficiency reduction: 23%
Quick Shot Critical Rating in Precision:
Pre-Book 7:
Total Hits: 207
Critical: 31
Devastate Critical: 12
Critical Chance: 15.0%
Devastate Critical Chance: 5.8%
Post-Book 7:
Total Hits: 258
Critical: 34
Devastate Critical: 21
Critical Chance: 13.2%
Devastate Critical Chance: 8.1%
All data combined:
Total Hits: 465
Critical: 65
Devastate Critical: 33
Critical Chance: 14.0%
Devastate Critical Chance: 7.1%
Comments:
As suspected, 4/5 bowmaster damage has gone down for > 30%. This doesn't worry me much, as it's for solo work, and that is just ok. What I did see was at least a minor increase in BPE of the mobs, but numbers for these require too much work to gather. 3/5 bowmaster should also see a significant damage decrease, probably very close to 30%, perhaps a little less.
The power usage is insane with 4/5 Bowmaster. The lack of Will in hunter gear hurts bad the recovery time between fights, and the BotR nerf (with a similar low provision of Fate) hurts ICPR a lot too, considering it takes longer to kill stuff.
The +40% Power cost is just too much. Every class can now burst DPS similarly, yet hunters are forced to take some significant pauses between fights because of this. Two mobs toghether will drain you dry, 3 and you might need to use a pot. 4/5 bowmaster still unloads out very good damage, but it just isn't gameplay friendly.
One thing that worries me is the unclear nerf to QS, which seems to be present only in the S:S test. 18% reduction agrees with the LI DPS nerf alone, but in S:S I got a 25%... It would be really nice if a Turbine Dev said something about this, but with the attention we get in these forums... I won't even dream about it.
S:P dropped for 26% in these tests. Of course this doesn't tell much in itself, but at least I can say that the feel of Precision with both Enduring Precision and Deadly Precision was quite nice, but the power consumption was high even then. It is clear that to sustain this in a group even with a mad stacking of ICPR and Fate, we'll need consumables/LMs/CJs assistance (I'll try it anyway since I still haven't made my peace with being forced into tS:E). The Miss+Block/Evade reduced considerably, making it a very reliable and predicable experience, as well as seeming to have more crits than in Strength (which is due to the larger number of shots succesfully landing the target).
A few words on the increased critical chance of Quick Shot in S:P... From the data I've gathered I don't see it.
There are 3 options
1) It isn't there
2) It is too damn small to make any real difference difference
3) It is in the form of critical rating (which is the same as 2)
I'm assuming it is option 3, since devastating critical chance does score higher, but the sample size should be a lot bigger to be able to measure it through devastates. This is the 3rd crappy design mistake (or decision... wouldn't it be nice if it was a mistake? it would mean we have a chance of having it fixed) regarding crit enhacements for hunter skills.
Regarding BotR... We have a 23% reduction on our power regen tool. Assuming we use a skill every 1.5s, before Book 7 slotting BotR would mean 620 ICPR. After Book 7 it is 480 ICPR. That is a net loss of 140 ICPR. A major hit to the sustained DPS department, and the nerf that is the one driving us the most back into cookie cutter builds.
ISB... It isn't a good DPS skill anymore. Although it was traited it just wasn't delivering as well as old QS->PS. This just kills the nice balance between focus and bow skills we were using, putting the DPS efficient skill rotation back on power and focus stress, making the power and crit issues even larger (since focus skills are more power expensive and a lot of our focus income is from now harder to get crits).
Regarding RoA or PS... I've done separate tests before Book 7 looking at the convenience of the traits for DPS considerations, but I will be repeating those since everything has changed quite a bit. The first results showed about a 5% average increase in PS damage for True Shot(and it probably would be better on bosses, which have high mitigations), and about 15% average damage increase to Rain of Arrows (but on bosses it would do worse because of level difference, crit protection and mitigations).
COMING SOON.... 5 minute sustained DPS test on tanked mob (or ettens high rank creep overhealed and unbuffed) with comparison data against a champion and a runekeeper