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View Full Version : FoS Pulpûm single target DPS Parsing, pre and post Book 7


Llewrend
01-04-2009, 11:37 AM
I ask that you read this post by Hakon_Stormbrow (http://forums.lotro.com/showpost.php?p=3543411&postcount=1) first. If you wish to contribute, and I hope you do, please use this template:{Name}[Average DPS]
[Weapon age]
[A short description of your DPS skill rotation, like Brutal-clobber-auto-wild-swift-auto]
[A list of DPs numbers
300
301
290
.
.]

Today is the last day we can collect any data pre-book 7 so I hope you take a half hour or so to do some testing. Cstats can be found here (http://www.codeplex.com/cstats). If you have questions about using it, I'll be glad to answer.

Pre-book 7

{Llewrend} [Average DPS 388.44.]
3rd age; my bow, traits and stats (http://imgur.com/DAEC4.jpg) 4BM/3HM
I used Needful Haste, Intent Concentration and Snare trap as often as I could which is about half the time. I also started all fights from ~35m range and full focus. Shot rotation was roughly [QS PS SB PS QS PS MS BS PS SB PS] etc. Once I started with a crit Heart-seeker which is quite clearly seen in the data. I used Fire-oil because I hate the pause in SB.
(I did a quick test with Swift Bow crit dmg number to see if dmg-type made a difference, Beleriand and Fire both critted 625, and deva 854, so only the fire dot from oil had any impact, I'd estimate only a ~1% at max. Additionally, I noticed I used about 1-1,3k power per Pulpûm. Average dmg taken was roughly ~850.)

http://imgur.com/DARGC.jpg
3BM/4HM S:P quick test (http://imgur.com/DBLJO.jpg).

Post-book 7

{Llewrend} [Average DPS 282]
Everything same as before. I noticed I used about 1,4-1,6k power per Pulpûm, ended up spending more time regening and used Snare trap on almost every mob. Had to use IC and NH more also. I had a feeling they BPE'd a bit more too but it might just be some bad RNG luck.

http://imgur.com/E0JP0.jpg

Conclusion
Not very nice to see but there you have it. Overall solo DPS for my experiment saw a ~27% drop*. I believe this is a fairly good experiment and gives a rough estimate of a general loss in DPS to be about a quarter, -25%. I hope we don't see "omfg, i lost halff my dps!!11" after this.
Normal mobs drop almost as fast as they used to and the difference is a bit smaller but still easily noticeable.

Further, I plan to test different trait setups to see how viable they are. I will parse tomorrow's Watcher raid and compare it with another I did earlier.

*(388.44-282)/388.44=0.274.

Disclaimer: This is not a competition! Individual stats, items and traits matter quite a lot. I am only trying to find a change percent in solo DPS for the sake of interest. Also, I know the US hunters have already done their own testing but I want to test stuff too. :)

OMWiener
01-04-2009, 11:46 AM
Thanks, will perhaps test a bit later as well. I'm gonna test both S:S and S:E to get some idea on group dps.

Lenin_
01-04-2009, 02:46 PM
{Finradiras} [Average DPS 316.20]

3rd age bow : http://community.codemasters.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4997385&postcount=20

4HM/3BM

Well I was too lazy so I just camped one spawn of the pulpul thus I had snare trap ready for every encounter. Also full focus.
I start with QS,PS,RoA,SB,PS,QS,PS,SB,RoA,PS and that is all I can remember. I don't use merciful shot, since I don't have trait for it and with trait reducing cost of RoA to 2 it is not much worth using imho. Also used fire-oil. And popped needful haste, due to cd like every 2nd encounter, few times used intent concentration.

http://www4.picturepush.com/photo/a/1544612/640/1544612.bmp (http://www.picturepush.com/public/1544612)

For some strange reason every screenshot I took ingame was completely black! So I will try to take screens of my stats+traits later, hopefuly it will work.

Post book 7
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/1561060/640/1561060.bmp (http://www.picturepush.com/public/1561060)

And that is 27% decrease. So pretty similar to Llewrend's.

OMWiener
01-04-2009, 03:02 PM
just curious, how did you prevent him getting into melee? or did you guys use traited needful haste to prevent setbacks?

Lenin_
01-04-2009, 03:25 PM
just curious, how did you prevent him getting into melee? or did you guys use traited needful haste to prevent setbacks?

Hmm well in my case he got to melee every time, and when my first QS resisted pulpum had over 50% morale when melee fight started. Anyway I always stick to ranged skills, I can do more dmg using them over melee skills. But that is just my feeling, I don't have numbers to back it up.
And no, I don't have the trait preventing setbacks. But with 4HM and needful haste my swiftbow is 1.1s induction time, so I don't really feel much setbacks.

Hmm I was just thinking... so when book 7 goes live I will probably spend more time in melee fight then in ranged, kinda ironic.

Scatha the Worm
01-04-2009, 05:37 PM
I have already gathered testing data from LoS in two runs, one in S:S full nuker setup and a second run in S:P sustained DPS setup (no merciful, starting from zero focus). I will post results when I get post-book 7 similar run tests for comparison purposes, and later I will run tests of sustained DPS (5 minute standard duration of fight, same target, without recieiving attacks) for comparison between champ, hunt and rk.

Testing against a Pulpum... Too much time in melee, even with traited NH, autoattacks of melee weapon will throw down the numbers from reality. Anyways... interesting thread.

Llewrend
02-04-2009, 08:44 PM
Posted post-patch data. Not nice but not as bad as I expected. My data also suggest a similar result as people on the US forums have concluded: -25% DPS.

I think the decrease in weapon dmg would have been enough. iSB third arrow doing less dmg than auto-attack is ridiculous. You might even be better off without buying the skill.
Testing against a Pulpum... Too much time in melee, even with traited NH, autoattacks of melee weapon will throw down the numbers from reality.Yes but then again if you go test DPS against normal mobs that die in 10 seconds without the need of a second iSB gives skewed results also, and will throw the numbers up from reality. However, if you test pre and post data with the same experiment, you should arrive to a similar relative conclusion as have I.
Hunters are quite hard to test due to inductions. DPSing a tanked arch-nemesis would probably be the only way to conclude a "real DPS" rating. Possibly in the Ettenmoors... In fact, I think I'll schedule that for the near future.

If you can test 5+ min DPS data, that would be interesting to see. I'm fairly certain a champion will be in the lead with a 5-10% margin. :)

MéLAnoR
02-04-2009, 08:47 PM
Posted post-patch data. Not nice but not as bad as I expected. My data also suggest a similar result as people on the US forums have concluded: -25% DPS.

I think the decrease in weapon dmg would have been enough. iSB third arrow doing less dmg than auto-attack is ridiculous. You might even be better off without buying the skill.
Thanks for putting this up ; objective data always wins :)

Calladan
02-04-2009, 10:45 PM
Yep nice one, numbers never lie and they are rarely wrong. Nice Work Llewrend and everyone that worked it out.

nightbyday
03-04-2009, 07:31 AM
Well us forums did say around 25% and most hunter calculated the dps nerf would be 20-25% before the book was launched even in the US. Mns damage is up by the same rofl.

How the hell can you justify knocking 1/4 or the dps potential off the main single target dps provider? Hunters must have been seriously over powered ha ha ha ha

OMWiener
03-04-2009, 07:45 AM
Posted post-patch data. Not nice but not as bad as I expected. My data also suggest a similar result as people on the US forums have concluded: -25% DPS.

I think the decrease in weapon dmg would have been enough. iSB third arrow doing less dmg than auto-attack is ridiculous. You might even be better off without buying the skill.
Yes but then again if you go test DPS against normal mobs that die in 10 seconds without the need of a second iSB gives skewed results also, and will throw the numbers up from reality. However, if you test pre and post data with the same experiment, you should arrive to a similar relative conclusion as have I.
Hunters are quite hard to test due to inductions. DPSing a tanked arch-nemesis would probably be the only way to conclude a "real DPS" rating. Possibly in the Ettenmoors... In fact, I think I'll schedule that for the near future.

If you can test 5+ min DPS data, that would be interesting to see. I'm fairly certain a champion will be in the lead with a 5-10% margin. :)

Aye I'll try and parse some data on the watcher fight ^^

Scatha the Worm
05-04-2009, 09:10 PM
4/3 Bowmaster/Huntsman (Critical Eye/Deady Precision/True Shot/Swift and True)/(Strong Draw, Resolute Aim, Fast Draw)
3rd Age lvl 60 bow 16% induction bow crit multiplier 14.5% focus bow crit multiplier
13.9% critical chance
4.6% devastate critical chance
573 agility

SS of my build (http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/5610/builds.jpg)


Rotation: NH ISB PS RoA QS PS QS AA PS ISB (BS) MS (PS) IC PS RoA (AR) PS with variations depending on mood and reflexes. The pulpum usually got in melee right in time for BS. Fough in water to get free snare, no traps.

http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/1384/pulpum.jpg (http://img93.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pulpum.jpg)

With the snare it would probably be better, but don't think that by much. Anyway... my 2 cents. Now, if someone would link this thread to US forums... wouldn't that be nice ;)
I also think the rotation could be better, but haven't thought much about it yet.