Book 12 Hunter Thread

[MéLAnoR]

I'll try to compile every little detail upcoming for hunter in Book 12 in this thread ( including New Pvmp Sets :P ) , feel free to add details !
Hunter






Melee Attacks/Combat

Most of the Hunter’s melee skills damage has increased; some skills have recovery timer increases as well.
Low Cut has had a slight increase to damage.
Agile Riposte - Significant damage increase, recovery timer increased.
The Hunter’s “Blindside” skill has had a damage increase, now adds 3 points of focus on use, and has an increased recovery timer from 10 seconds to 20 seconds.
The Hunter’s “Agile Rejoinder” will now begin execution much faster. Also, it cannot be parried, blocked, or evaded, nor will it miss against targets of your level.
The level where Hunters can purchase the Dual-Wield trait has been lowered from 15 to 10.

The Hunter’s “Swift Stroke” now applies a short-term self-buff to Parry chance.
The Hunter’s “Scourging Blow” has been given an increased chance to critical on both the melee attack and Barbed Arrow removal damage.
Barbed Arrow - Halved the number of pulses and doubled the damage per-pulse.
Reduced the rate that Hunters lose Focus for moving from 1 focus per second to 1 focus per 3 seconds. Example: If you use Low-cut and then run for 6 seconds you will lose 2 points of Focus. If you run for 4 seconds, you will still lose 2 points. If you run for 3 seconds or less you will lose 1 point.
The Hunter’s “Merciful Shot” may now be used on targets below 50% health (rather than below 25% health). The recovery timer has been increased from 10s to 30s.
Fixed a minor Hunter FX bug.
Classes/Skills

Ranged Attacks








All players (including monster and session players) with ranged auto-attacks can now right-click or double-click to start attacking from a distance.
We have changed ranged auto-attack to allow you to shoot while moving, but with a significant miss chance penalty. Previously you were required to be stationary to use your ranged auto-attack. A new option has been added to the "Combat Options" tab on the Options panel to allow you to use the old requirements instead of accepting the miss chance penalty while moving. The new option is called "Enable skill miss chance penalties while moving", and it is checked by default.
Fear

Fear has changed in a few ways. Previously, it would break on any damage received. Now, damage from pre-existing DOT has only a very small chance to break the target out of Fear. Any attacks made on the target after 2 seconds of entering Fear will still break the target out of Fear. Additionally, the radius of the target's call for help has been halved and at most one add will respond (though pets and their masters will still pull together). This means that targets suffering from DOTs are very unlikely to break out of Fear if they are not attacked while running and they are less likely to bring adds.


Monsters affected by Fear will now generally run further from the source of the fear. They will also choose a narrower path away from the source, giving more reliability to the direction Fear-affected monsters run. However, cornered monsters may still choose to run past their attacker to get away.
Consumables

Also noted that recipes for oils/traps etc will now be purchasable from trainers and are no longer drops.
Materials reduction for above.

Q
U
I
V
E
R
S ^^

Legendary Accomplishments









A Shot in the Dark Pages 5, 10, 14, 16 - Found in Angmar
Pages 19, 22, 23, 25 - Found in the Misty Mountains
The Way of the Hunter Pages 1, 3, 4, 8 - Found in Angmar
Pages 17, 20, 21, 28 - Found in the Misty Mountains


* * * SPOİLER !!! * * *

Pvmp set (Hunter specific) :
> (http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w257/aidenone/hunter.jpg)Click here< (http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w257/aidenone/hunter.jpg)
More Pvmp Teal rewards you may like :
>Click here< (http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w257/aidenone/jewels.jpg)

Insane Bow - Book 12.6 reward :
>click here< (http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b131/TheForkWins/newbow.jpg)

Some other book 12 rewards:
Shoulder (http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b131/TheForkWins/b12shoulders.jpg)
Necklace (You must either choose the bow or necklace) (http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b131/TheForkWins/b12neck.jpg)

Book 12 ch 10 reward ( cloak ):
>click here< (http://dkpfiles.com/tabakinship/pics/52.jpg)

.. ll add more screeny later on.If you have a Roheryn account i'd really appreciate more screenshots regarding ..
Thanks !
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Let's talk :)
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Sets compared:
credit for most of this goes to DeathDawn from their post HERE (http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=95543&highlight=auroch+set)
Ettenmoor set

Armour: 968
Morale: 0
Power: 90
might: 75
Agility: 105 (+15 agility from set bonus 120)
Vitality: 120
Will: 60
Fate: 30

+2 icmr

set bonus: +50% low cut duration, -10% heart seeker recovery time

on use: 230.4 mor 140.8 pwr on helm

Exquisite Galadhrim Set

Armour: 871
Morale: 180
Power: 360
Might: 90
Agility: 90
Vitality: 90
Will: 60
Fate: 30

Auroch Set (book 10 hunter set)

Stats:
Armour: 968
Morale: 0
Power: 90
Might: 75
Agility: 105 (+15 from Set bonus; 120)
Vitality: 120
Will: 60
Fate: 30

Additional Effects:

2 In-combat morale regen
-2 secondss swift bow recovery time
-1 seconds penetrating shot recovery time

Doom-Hunter Set (book 11 hunter set)

Stats:
Armour: 889
Morale: 22
Power: 270
Might: 70
Agility: 128 (+15 from Set bonus; 143)
Vitality: 120
Will: 69
Fate: 53

Additional Effects:

0.3 In-combat morale regen
25% chance to absorb shadow damage for 15 minutes every hour
-50% power cost of heartseeker
-18% power cost of penetrating shot

More Confirmed infos :

Swift Stroke adds +8% to parry
Quivers are just for appearance. You're actually still benefitting from the stats on your cloak, and your bow still uses durability instead of arrows.More info : Quivers are dyeable !
HEARTSEEKER RETICLE IS STILL VISIBLE TO MONSTER PLAYERS. HOWEVER, THE BLACKARROW EQUIVALENT HAS NO RETICLE AND HAS A MUCH SHORTER INDUCTION TIME. (Just think swift-bow for 1k damage + Serious Wound)
Hunter Melee Analysis :@ Leadfingers in US forums : (http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=115557)
I finally got a chance to parse some real numbers on the new Hunter melee changes...here's what I found:

First, I took off all my jewelry and armor, so I could make myself as similar on both servers as possible.

RoherynMe: 78,163,92,89,88
LiveMe: 92,148,91,101,80
I think all my Class traits were the same. RoherynMe is an Elf, Live is a Human.

I logged combat for about 30 Cave Claw fights in East Angmar. All mobs were 46 to 48 level. My intent was only to see how much more damage we could do with the new changes to melee styles.

http://img27.picoodle.com/img/img27/4/1/23/leadfingers/f_MeleeDamagem_014d3c2.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/4/1/23/leadfingers/f_MeleeDamagem_014d3c2.jpg&srv=img27)

Quick Analysis...

Auto Attack: No changes were listed for auto attacks, so I expected these numbers to stay the same.

Agile Rejoinder: I got a fairly consistant 25% increase in damage from Live to Roheryn. This, combined with the fact that it can't be BPE'd, is very nice.

Blindside: Blindside gets double damage and generates 3 focus. Pwnage.

Low Cut: Like Auto Attack...No changes listed...

Scourging Blow: The numbers here may be a little bit off. On Roheryn, I kept using Scourging Blow when the mob didn't have the Barbed Arrow bleed on it. This means that my Roheryn numbers are probably slightly lower than they should be. I had a better success rate on Live. I'm fairly confidant that SB should be in the +50% damage category.

Swift Stroke: No damage change was advertised, but I can tell you that with the +8% parry chance, my Agile Rejoinder reactive was almost always lit on Roheryn.



@NameAlreadyTaken : (http://forums.lotro.com/showpost.php?p=1502956&postcount=2)
- The 8% Parry bonus on Swift Stroke makes it worth using every something gets close.
- Blindside does better damage than a non crit Quick Shot and adds 3 Focus for PS/RoA/MS.
- Agile Rejoinder is about as good as a QS and never misses; worth using when it lights up simply because it's so darn fast.
- Scourging Blow is almost 2 normal QS worth of damage. Optional, but it's improved as well. I'll try and work it in when able.
@NameAlreadyTaken
Blindside with a junk D74 Bow a D52 Spear was doing over 300 damage without a crit. With real equipment it's definately going to be a solid skill.

[MéLAnoR]

Continueing post No.1 :






Hunter CC Analysis: (http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=115614)
@Infares : Testing: RoT and skill traps grabbed at least 75% of the time (Seemingly), Bard's Arrow about 90% or more. Cry of the Predator, which works specifically on beasts, didn't have nearly the accuracy because Beasts are hardcoded to have high Cry resist, so it didn't fare so well.

Didn't get a chance to test many crafted traps, however.
@NameAlreadyTaken : I had Sturdy Traps slotted during most of the day and it helped push that number up for me. They're definately sturdy now, instead of "Why did I slot this trait if they're just going to ignore my traps". Ran out of crafted traps pretty fast but the ones I used all worked, even the Trip Wire.

Bard's Arrow worked flawlessly all day. The ability to send your target running in the direction of your choosing is just too much fun. Merciful Shot at 50% and the new Blindside are both as good as they sound. I'm liking the changes quite a bit.

The Book 12 Bow is very, very nice. Almost a constant armor rend with two of them firing away.


#~* QuIvErS *~#


http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh121/bookonroheryn/quiver1.png
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh121/bookonroheryn/quiver2.png
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh121/bookonroheryn/quiver3.png
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh121/bookonroheryn/quiver4.png
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q280/Dinidain/LoA%20Webstuff/QuiversElvis.jpg



Crafting : Info regarding Traps requirements
@bstrothe (http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=115427)
basic lure trap (x3, crit x6)
tier 3 consumable
earns 2 crafting points
components: 1 long yew shaft, 1 short yew shaft, 1 bundle of straw (optional 1 shaggy auroch tail)

improved lure trap (x3, crit x6)
tier 4 consumable
earns 2 crafting points
components: 1 long lebethron shaft, 1 short lebethron shaft, 2 bundles of straw (optional 1 huge drake tail)

cunning lure trap (x3, crit x6)
tier 5 consumable
earns 2 crafting points
components: 1 long black ash shaft, 1 short black ash shaft, 2 bundle of straw (optional 1 lethal sharp dread turtle webbed claw)


oils/bow chants no longer take moon letters, just 2 long lost second age texts + vendor mat

[MéLAnoR]

Questions to be answered more infos to be gathered ..
Curious? Just post what you want to know and i gather them here to be answered.

A lot of good stuff overall coming in Book12, but as for specific Hunter changes, I can't say I'm that impressed.

No word about trap/root resists!

No word about fix to Elf Bow Damage Trait!

No word about fix to ranged attack/pathing/exploit bug ( it happens in more areas than listed in patch notes as having pathing issue fixes )!

Will the changes to Oils/Traps/Chants drop the cost significantly?

Are there any unlisted surprises awaiting us?? I'll be watching the US forums closely.

Adding more :

Need screenshot or feedback regarding "Barbed Fury" and "Rapid Recovery" traits.
Induction reductions are clearified need excat values for commonly used bows.

[Thorondor123]

I like it.

[sloth]

Very nice m8, been wondering about the armour for a while now. Looked everywhere but couldnt find anything :)



Loper lvl 50 Hunter * rank 7 *
Gilrain

[OMWiener]

Honestly, i'm not too excited about the changes. Don't get me wrong the melee changes are nice, but only really usefull in solo or 1v1.

The fear= never gonna slot it again. Fear is still a liable form of CC to use, not to mention it's worse then our other two legendary skills (BOTR, RoT)

Barbed arrow= So they actually didn't change anything DPS wise? I don't see the point of these changes. The wound is still crappy and equipping the trait isn't a smart move either, since the increase in damage is none existing (sort of speak).

like the losing of focus change

like the changes to Merciful shot.

The Pvp set armour is just the same as the epic set....But at least it will be a tad easier to get by...hopefully...:)

The bow looks nice, the dagger looks crap

[Dofolo]

Hmz I frequently get the 'must not be moving to use skill' when attacking. I hope that does not mean that instead of not starting with swift it now auto shoots a normal arrow (that most likely wouldn't hit the ground if I aimed at it ...) and start pulling the mob before I can get in my first damage.

Rest of the changes ... more updates to skills we hardly use. yay.

[pineapple@[En Eldar]]

armour set is a bit sucky, like the bow, although reminds me of gilnor, and the dagger might be nice for a great combo, all in all, dont bother getting the armour set if you have rift. I like one of the braceletes, 30agi 90morale and someinthing else, having that and the zaudru bracelet could also be a nice combo!. Now there are new cloaks, exactly like radiant but easier to get, thx turbine for screwing up crafting!,

ps, ettendeep looks fun ^^

[Elisar]

well, now i might just come back to lotro ;)

[Scappydog]

A lot of good stuff overall coming in Book12, but as for specific Hunter changes, I can't say I'm that impressed.

No word about trap/root resists!

No word about fix to Elf Bow Damage Trait!

No word about fix to ranged attack/pathing/exploit bug ( it happens in more areas than listed in patch notes as having pathing issue fixes )!

Will the changes to Oils/Traps/Chants drop the cost significantly?

Still no in-combat self heal!

Will the increased damage from Melee skills compensate for longer cooldowns?

The focus bonus from Blindside is welcome.

The buff to parry from Swift Stroke ( reported to be 8% from US forums ) is a small boost to damage mitigation.

The change to focus loss from movement. Is this to encourage kiting or to compensate for not fixing the ranged/pathing/exploit bug?

Although fear has been tinkered with, I still don't consider it to be a legendary skill.

Book 12 cloak rewards are a kick in the nuts to Tailors, but look to be very tasty cloaks for Hunters.

To me this Book looks a significant change to the way you play your Hunter ( again! )

Are there any unlisted surprises awaiting us?? I'll be watching the US forums closely.

[Belion_]

not a bad bow and a decent bracelet with 1.5 ICPR for a 15 agility loss (to us people who vendored the good ones thru out the book quests :( )

the hunter set is pretty usless other then for cosmetic reasons.

[Jediknight]

LMAO yay now i can beat creeps/mobs up with me daggers better, soon our class with be called ranged champions lol

whats the point in giving us updates on melee when our class is mainly ranged and we virtually dont do melee, yet another great useless update.

as for the armours yup another crap set for the hunter.

the focus, shoot while moving is good
having mercy shot back to 50% is good but then we loose our mercy shot recovery time lol they hand us something in one hand and take it back out of the other.

personally i would rather loose all these melee updates and have heart seeker changed to less cool down with faster progress for shooting it but this would never happy as lotro would flood with crys again.

not sure about pvmp yet for hunters but im thinking the whole system will favour creeps like it always does so dont think just hunters will suffer, as if creeps arnt hard enough now and controlling etten 99% of the time but this we will just have to wait and see on the day

overall wish turbine would put hunters back to the way they was in the start and then update the other classes to bring them inline like what they are doing with them now, coz as it stands now the other classes are becoming dominant and hunters are being pushed aside, but least this helps us in the future when theres no hunters left they will make us gods to encourage hunter play again hehe untill others start crying NERF the hunter

[M4t1s]

2nd Aurochs set, is just a laugh. About the jewellery, yes, there are something worth changing with my current gear, and the bow is pretty good too.

[MéLAnoR]

A lot of good stuff overall coming in Book12, but as for specific Hunter changes, I can't say I'm that impressed.

No word about trap/root resists!

No word about fix to Elf Bow Damage Trait!

No word about fix to ranged attack/pathing/exploit bug ( it happens in more areas than listed in patch notes as having pathing issue fixes )!

Will the changes to Oils/Traps/Chants drop the cost significantly?

Are there any unlisted surprises awaiting us?? I'll be watching the US forums closely.I've taken some of your comments and questions and will add to the second post reserved to be confirmed or answered with future infos.
* * *
If you have questions in your mind please post so i can compile them in second post to be carried in main post with confirmed status and more infos,thanks.

[sloth]

If this is PvP armour, as its supposed to be then why no shadow mitigation?!?
I was waiting for book 12 hoping they would rite all the wrongs they did to hunters, but instead they give us slight increase in melee, nothing to ranged, and armour u have to raid to get.

The raiding part is the thing i dont get!!
Why make it so hard to get, didnt i work long and hard enough to get to rank 7 in the first place? I was expecting the same type of thing as the reputation system where u grind ur rank and then go to an NPC in GV and purchase ur new armour, or use tokens from some of the solo Q's or Keep raids.
This gear aint worth the hassle imo. Not compared to what the creeps get.... wargs give fear to every freep around them from rank 6 or something, amongst others. Reavers get a sort of last stand where damage is reflected back on the attacker and the reavers own damage is greatly raised amongst others again.
Hunters get AH equivalent armour with no shadow mitigation, its hard enough to solo a reaver or warg above rank 4 now, it will be impossible when they get all their new toys ffs

p.s maybe im the only hunter that thinks this way but i was also hoping for something like the BA's evade, even if it meant swapping it for df. I hate using df in EM anyway if im in a fs, aint right to leave ur comrades to get ganked alone.


Signed a totally ****ed off hunter
*rank 7* though i dont know why i bothered

[MéLAnoR]

...
p.s maybe im the only hunter that thinks this way but i was also hoping for something like the BA's evade, even if it meant swapping it for df. I hate using df in EM anyway if im in a fs, aint right to leave ur comrades to get ganked alone.

...i strongly agree that part.

[Kuku]

aint right to leave ur comrades to get ganked alone.


Yas, getting ganked together is so much better :p

Anyway, I've always been against giving hunters a melee boost, but it may help in solo situations which is where we were most vulnerable. We'll have to see how it works out in practice. But I don't see book 12 bring a big change in our play style... which is good!

[Sy-]

Hm, I might be being dense, but what exactly is "Agile Riposte"?

Also not liking that 30s cooldown on Merciful shot, like the 6 focus cost wasn't bad enough already... well, at least they raised the morale restriction, that's nice now.

I don't see these melee changes massively affecting my play style, depending on the size of the increases in cooldowns. I usually cycle through most of my melee skills once once a mob gets into melee range and then Quick Shot/Penetrating Shot them to death after that. The boosted damage should mean they should be dead before the end of a melee cycle I guess.

Hopefully Agile Rejoinder now will act irrespective of the skill wait timer (like most other tier one response skills), and hopefully "significant damage" really is significant, it's the kind of response skill you expect to deal some major damage given the description.

[MéLAnoR]

Agile riposte is probably meant to be as Agile Rejoinder , a mistype.
btw i can't enter Hunter Forum seciton with firefox , opens an empty page , weird.Nothing with IE though.
edit : erased cookies and past , now working ..

[sloth]

Has anybody got any news on potions? I have been reding the creep threads for bk12, they are getting potions, food etc.

So i was wondering if there is any news on wether we will be getting anything, a potion versus stun would be nice :)




Loper lvl 50 hunter *rank 7*
Gilrain

[MéLAnoR]

Has anybody got any news on potions? I have been reding the creep threads for bk12, they are getting potions, food etc.

So i was wondering if there is any news on wether we will be getting anything, a potion versus stun would be nice :)




Loper lvl 50 hunter *rank 7*
GilrainI don't think that we're gettinh any of these , no news so far..

[Beorrahn]

No word about trap/root resists!

Just a quick FYI on this one since Hunters in general are apparantly ignorant of this:

In Book10 the base resist rates of all NPCs to Stun/Mez/Conjunction/Debuffs was heavily increased. Instead of them having ~5% resist rate, the mobs ended up having a ~25-50% resist rate (some notably higher than others).

There were a few posts about it and a few complaints in-game from both Burglars and Loremasters since it decreased their efficiency by a rather noticeable amount.

In Book11 the Devs realised they had cocked up in Bk10 and didn't raise the Root resist rates in-line with the others. They then "fixed" the "problem".

It's the buffed global resist rates that are causing your traps and roots to be less effective, not any change to the Hunter class or skills ;).

On the downside, you're stuck with it unless the Devs decide to decrease the global resist %. On the bright side, you're affected by it far less than LMs and Burgs are.

As for anti-stun and -root potions, I can't see them ever being implemented for freeps. The only reason creeps have them is because so many freep classes can lock in so many stuns and roots. Creeps have 1 class that can root (and it's getting changed to being breakable in Bk12) 1 target at a time and 2 classes than can stun 1 target at a time. Compare that to freep CC effects (especially the AoE ones) and you can surely understand why they get the pots for it and we don't.

[OMWiener]

On the downside, you're stuck with it unless the Devs decide to decrease the global resist %. On the bright side, you're affected by it far less than LMs and Burgs are.

.

A lot less of our skills might be be affected by this, but our class as a whole is more affected by this then Lm or burg, cuz we don't have any alternatives as they do.

Traps and RoT are our only form of CC (i'm not counting fear as of yet). As such they are our only option to survive grouped mobs of 3+. If that' fails, we're dead (or dfed or ran^^).

Another point is that RoT is a legendary skill..it's legendary..it should in no way be compared to any normal skills of a LM or burg

Third point is our traps cost a lot of money to make at the moment (fixed in book 12 hopefully). Hence if that get's resisted, we just blew like 100S (this is just a random guess).

and i assume they have alternative ways to fix this besides lowering the resistance, as increasing the hit chance of the traps, especially the hand made ones/legendary. The existance of different level traps alone, proves they have the coding to increase it.

[Beorrahn]

Deleted. No point arguing with huntards, they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

If anyone truly believes that the increased resist rates were targetted at Hunters rather than LMs and Burglars, there's not much you can do to convince them otherwise.

Suffice to say I hope I never group with any hunter that actually believes his CC is as important as a Loremasters.

[MéLAnoR]

added Hunter melee analysis of Us fellow hunters.
Check the first post tagged as "Confirmed data ,info ,analysis.."

[MéLAnoR]

Are you taking the ****?

I tried being nice. I'll be blunt.

Stop. ****ing. Whining.

You have 1 skill on a 1 minute CD, out of combat only, 1 skill on a 3 minute CD. and purchasable/craftable traps on a 3min CD (IIRC).

Those are the only skills you have that are in any way affected by this change.

Almost every skill a LM has is affected. 50% of the Burglar skills are affect.

Those two classes are ****ing well BASED on CC and debuffs and are weakened a ****ing thousand times more than Huntards are by the buffed resist rates.

I have a Hunter. He has Rain of Thorns. I can tell you for a bloody fact that the incerased resist mates make virtually zero difference to a hunters overall effectiveness. Hunters are a DPS class, not a CC class.

Honestly, there are reasons that Hunter-only players are seen the the single whiniest and most complaining class in the game, and this is a perfect example of it.I don't have an end-game loremaster nor a burglar so i can't comment about how those changes affected gameplay of those classes but i quite disaggree with the paragraph as marked red above.
This thread has nothing to do with any comparement with other classes or creeps so i won't make any comment further.However if you open up a new thread about it sure we can talk.
/period.

[Daguras]

Changes sound very welcome, especially Blindside turning into a more viable finishing move -- and it looks cool too! Another ranged skill wouldn't go amiss... mybe in book 13 if we're lucky :P

Regarding resists, yeah they're annoying but I find it more due to the timing. Often I've been able to root and do some hefty damage to 3-4 mobs before the traps break while other occasions have seen skill trap, crafted t5 triple trap, RoT AND fear all resist on the same mob. Same for my own parry/evade rate... (15-16% each in solo build) sometimes I'll go for ages without a single parry and others I'll parry/evade 4 out of 5 attacks. Sounds more like biased/dodgy calculations than a problem with %age.

[OMWiener]

i never whined about anything, i just stated the view i had on the matter. Hunters might not be a CC class for a group, but we rely on it for solo play.

I never said this change was directed at hunters, i just said it altered our survivablity in a profound way (perhaps i should have made the survivability more clear, i admit that was a bit vague), the survivability loremasters and burglars still have.

And considering the CC of hunters: Unfortunately a lot of the community think as you do, hence i never get any time to place some traps down etc...Things that would make the fight a whole lot easier, but yeah we're just a DPS class.....

PS: i can't believe you just stated you won't 'lower' yourself to 'our' level after making a post like that....

Anyway on the topic, i think we're definitely not in a worse state then any of the other classes. I was hoping for a more profound change, but i guess the developpers just have another view on things. I'm just looking forward to test out these changes myself.

[Scappydog]

Just a quick FYI on this one since Hunters in general are apparantly ignorant of this:

In Book10 the base resist rates of all NPCs to Stun/Mez/Conjunction/Debuffs was heavily increased. Instead of them having ~5% resist rate, the mobs ended up having a ~25-50% resist rate (some notably higher than others).

There were a few posts about it and a few complaints in-game from both Burglars and Loremasters since it decreased their efficiency by a rather noticeable amount.

In Book11 the Devs realised they had cocked up in Bk10 and didn't raise the Root resist rates in-line with the others. They then "fixed" the "problem".

It's the buffed global resist rates that are causing your traps and roots to be less effective, not any change to the Hunter class or skills ;).

On the downside, you're stuck with it unless the Devs decide to decrease the global resist %. On the bright side, you're affected by it far less than LMs and Burgs are.

As for anti-stun and -root potions, I can't see them ever being implemented for freeps. The only reason creeps have them is because so many freep classes can lock in so many stuns and roots. Creeps have 1 class that can root (and it's getting changed to being breakable in Bk12) 1 target at a time and 2 classes than can stun 1 target at a time. Compare that to freep CC effects (especially the AoE ones) and you can surely understand why they get the pots for it and we don't.

Thank you for that information.

As others have pointed out, this change did affect our class quite profoundly especially in a solo context. I can only comment on the way things affect my chosen class since Hunter is the only toon I have.

"In Book10 the base resist rates of all NPCs to Stun/Mez/Conjunction/Debuffs was heavily increased. Instead of them having ~5% resist rate, the mobs ended up having a ~25-50% resist rate (some notably higher than others). "

No where in that quote does it mention traps or roots as specifically having their resist rate increased. I can only concluded that the effect on our traps/roots was unforeseen/unintended and therefore feel fully justified in asking whether the problem has been fixed.

[Scappydog]

"


Quick Analysis...

Auto Attack: No changes were listed for auto attacks, so I expected these numbers to stay the same.

Agile Rejoinder: I got a fairly consistant 25% increase in damage from Live to Roheryn. This, combined with the fact that it can't be BPE'd, is very nice.

Blindside: Blindside gets double damage and generates 3 focus. Pwnage.

Low Cut: Like Auto Attack...No changes listed...

Scourging Blow: The numbers here may be a little bit off. On Roheryn, I kept using Scourging Blow when the mob didn't have the Barbed Arrow bleed on it. This means that my Roheryn numbers are probably slightly lower than they should be. I had a better success rate on Live. I'm fairly confidant that SB should be in the +50% damage category.

Swift Stroke: No damage change was advertised, but I can tell you that with the +8% parry chance, my Agile Rejoinder reactive was almost always lit on Roheryn."

So it would appear, taking the increased cooldowns into effect, that there is actually very little increase in melee damage over time. It would appear to be the parry buff/focus gain that gives the biggest benefit as far I can see. Extra focus for a Pen shot and some damage mitigation. I guess its time to start rethinking the button order.

I wonder how much the melee skill cooldown reduction trait ( can't remember the title ) will benefit these changes?

[Daguras]

No where in that quote does it mention traps or roots as specifically having their resist rate increased. I can only concluded that the effect on our traps/roots was unforeseen/unintended and therefore feel fully justified in asking whether the problem has been fixed.

No it doesn't, it says that resist rates were increased for EVERYTHING. IE, traps applying the root mechanic (most likely) use the Physical resistance stat... that Physical resistance gets buffed five-fold and traps fail more often due to this increase. All stuns and mezz effects may well be Song (based on burglars Riddle tooltip). Whatever they are, ALL resistances have been increased so ANY skill or consumable which is countered by them has less chance of success, regardless of class/race/level/hair colour/whatever.

Since our melee skills got buffed it's safe to assume traps will never be changed to be 100% effective. Stacked damage over time debuffs are more of a problem for hunters since we have no way to heal and pots remove 1 effect at random - currently I can't fight a single gauredain + wolf ally without getting 3+ fear and 3+ wound debuffs, not to mention the poisoned lethargy, all of which last 2 minutes and do something thing like -200 will/fate, lowering resistance, debuff run & attack speed etc etc. Usually those fights end in death or getting out of combat ASAP to eat food and pray the out of combat regen tick comes before the DoT. Of course logging out and swearing at whoever designed this class is also common option :P

[AmpliFied_SouL]

"
Low Cut: Like Auto Attack...No changes listed...


Let's just hope it stays that way.


I wonder how much the melee skill cooldown reduction trait ( can't remember the title ) will benefit these changes?

Right now it reduces cooldown for 2 seconds. Probably not going to change.

[MéLAnoR]

The trait reducing the melee skill recovery time is yet not confirmed to be changed.It's on the list ( check post no.2 in the thread) and i'll add info whenever it's confirmed.

[Sy-]

Low Cut: Like Auto Attack...No changes listed...
I thought it was meant to get a minor damage boost.

Scourging Blow: The numbers here may be a little bit off. On Roheryn, I kept using Scourging Blow when the mob didn't have the Barbed Arrow bleed on it. This means that my Roheryn numbers are probably slightly lower than they should be. I had a better success rate on Live. I'm fairly confidant that SB should be in the +50% damage category.
I think the update reads it as some increased crit chances overall, so it's hard to judge it properly really.

Swift Stroke: No damage change was advertised, but I can tell you that with the +8% parry chance, my Agile Rejoinder reactive was almost always lit on Roheryn."
Mine is almost always lit anyway. :S

So it would appear, taking the increased cooldowns into effect, that there is actually very little increase in melee damage over time. It would appear to be the parry buff/focus gain that gives the biggest benefit as far I can see. Extra focus for a Pen shot and some damage mitigation. I guess its time to start rethinking the button order.

I wonder how much the melee skill cooldown reduction trait ( can't remember the title ) will benefit these changes?

I think the point of a lot of these changes is to shift our melee dps from being drawn out, to being early big hitting spikes. The quoted damage to Barbed Arrow suggests this as a possible general direction too, as it deals the same damage over time, but in less time overall.

Overall, I think these changes will help me kill stuff slightly quicker. I do think what you've said about Blindside is somewhat overpowered, it's 2 hits, so should really only be 2 focus points. It's already hitting for decent damage (and that's with daggers :S) to double it makes it about as strong as Swift Shot, tho I guess that might be the idea. I do like the change to Agile Rejoinder bar the longer cooldown. It's a skill I actually try to spam since I seem to get the parry reactive very often and it's the quickest melee skill in terms of anim time.

Any numbers on the new cooldown timers?

[MéLAnoR]

To those who think cc is not a major issue to hunters or vice versa ,i'd suggest keep an eye(maybe two =P) on this topic :
http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=115614
Hoping that Devs've worked on our CC issues , this time US fellows give us better numbers , book 11 messed up our CC as you know ..
I'll add their analysis on first post.
/MeL

[OMWiener]

Thanks a lot Melanor, that does look good indeed

[MéLAnoR]

insane bow !
added to first post!
Spoiler Alert !!!
its for the epic quest, 12.6.
İf you don't want to see then don't scroll down :D
But you know you want to :P
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http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b131/TheForkWins/newbow.jpg

[Dalin]

Nasty. Very nasty. :D

To bad about the 2.8 speed, but I guess that's what makes it nasty in the first place!

[HardOnails]

most of the changes look pap tbh

the pvp set has awefull stats, still not coming close to mix n matching armour, looks nice thou

the melee changes are on the whole a waste of time, however any melee skill that gives focus i will use as these will be usefull, 300 crit on a melee strike still doenst compare to a 600 crit on pen shot ...

Reduction in focus loss on movement woot !!!

the bow, at last we are getting something half decent !!!!

and no more sticky glue feet when firing !!!!

something to be happy about for once as a hunter

[sloth]

I love that bow, my char has a 24.6% crit chance at range even b4 i get some nice Captain to give me the 3% buff :) so that mother will hit hard !
Not sure about the damage type though, ive only got experience of light, fire and common damage bows atm...... can any1 shed any light here, never played a creep so i dont know if their resists are low to this kind of damage.



Loper lvl 50 hunter *rank 7*
Gilrain

[MéLAnoR]

*sigh* double posted.
I have problems with CM forums specificly hunter section , not showing posts i submitted , can't refresh etc..
Gotta use IE for this section maybe ..

[MéLAnoR]

I love that bow, my char has a 24.6% crit chance at range even b4 i get some nice Captain to give me the 3% buff :) so that mother will hit hard !
Not sure about the damage type though, ive only got experience of light, fire and common damage bows atm...... can any1 shed any light here, never played a creep so i dont know if their resists are low to this kind of damage.



Loper lvl 50 hunter *rank 7*
GilrainWell i have hit a famous R8 stalker( toppling :P ) in our server about 1750 with heartseeker without any buff on me , using BoF.
So if the mob/creep doesnt resist well that bow will bring miracles !

ps : i have problems lately with the forum , might have posted double ;if so , sorry about that.

[Dalin]

Most creeps will use their slots to boost resistance to something more commonly used (like beleriand, light and fire) so Westernesse will most likely have less resists facing it then the others.

[Nithrindel]

Nice changes coming :) The Barbed arrow change is kinda useless thou. Same DPS as always.. Anyway cool.

[Amwrath]

That bow is slooooooooooooooooooooow..

[sloth]

That bow is slooooooooooooooooooooow..

Speed dont matter if u have gone for an agility/crit setup.
Its the highest damage that multiplies in a crit.




Loper lvl 50 hunter *rank 7*
Gilrain

[MéLAnoR]

bow/xbow speeds are only applied to autoattack intervals so you can spam your skills at the same rate , you can even disable autoattack but i don't advise to do so especially in moors , cause its usefull.

[Daguras]

Zomg that bow looks like a monster! 102 top-end WESTERNESSE damage will rock a phat one against the dead - in my experience with Bane of Forvengwath (also westernesse) it should be a good one in the 'Moors too.

Speed is no different to Celegdur or Lunathrons Bow but we'll be seeing bigger Heartseekers now. Personal record is ~3400 although I know one guy who got it over 4k with all the buffs available :D

[Belion_]

id like to see proof of a 4k HS crit b4 i believe it hell anything over 3.2k id call shenigians unless i saw proof

[MéLAnoR]

agaisnt lvl 2 cave claws maybe with tons of buffes /debuffes and foods :D
What is it all about toppest damage , is it that important?
I'd rather my hunter have more variable roles and more wanted in lff ch. for combat purposes not just ports.
Doing a supreme nuke blast every 5 min is not really important if you ask me , but that's just me.I'd trade HS with anything that brings lessened induction , more survivability and smoother combatplay.

[MéLAnoR]

new info :
oils/bow chants no longer take moon letters, just 2 long lost second age texts + vendor mat

[Belion_]

new info :
oils/bow chants no longer take moon letters, just 2 long lost second age texts + vendor mat

this is a GODSEND

[MéLAnoR]

Well if the CC tests come out good then i'll be making a party for Dangerdan :D

[Kuku]

That bow looks nicey :) And Melanor is right, speed / dps stats on a bow are largely irrelevant, you want to look at the damage type and range, and the bonuses.

[MéLAnoR]

# added more book 12 reward screenies to post No.1
# added some CC analysis to post No.2 (http://community.codemasters.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3588498&postcount=2)
# moved the second post to No.3 (required/missing infos thread) for more room.

[sloth]

Any chance of some screenies to show the barter system, ie what you need/how many for each item? I have seen many of these for the creeps but none for the freep side. Would be good to know how attainable the barter items are aswell, do we need to raid EM's or do any mobs in Ettendeep drop them? What lvl are the average Ettendeep mobs anyway? are they all Elites/Elite masters?




Loper lvl 50 hunter
Gilrain

[MéLAnoR]

Any chance of some screenies to show the barter system, ie what you need/how many for each item? I have seen many of these for the creeps but none for the freep side. Would be good to know how attainable the barter items are aswell, do we need to raid EM's or do any mobs in Ettendeep drop them? What lvl are the average Ettendeep mobs anyway? are they all Elites/Elite masters?




Loper lvl 50 hunter
GilrainAs far as i know ; you can solo down there in ettendeeps and quite possible there are every rank of monsters there swarm/signature to nemesis.I think we need 2x(15 or 30 )barter items but need to check roheryn screenshots.

[sloth]

Thanks m8, cool to know you can solo/small fs
Dunno if freeps on Gilrain will even get a chance to go down there, creeps outnumber us 4v1 most of the time so well have to wait and see.



Loper lvl 50 hunter
Gilrain

[MéLAnoR]

well you can use npcs in advantage of yourself ;)

[Turkisch]

cheers for all the info, I'm very curious about the new update

[Belechael]

Thanks for the combined info, really appreciated!

[MéLAnoR]

added quiver pictures to post No.2 (http://community.codemasters.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3588498&postcount=2)

[Dzaydi77]

Thanks for the update, you did a good job.

I am not that excited about the items but happy about the melee changes, maybe now i can solo high ranked creeps.







__________________________________________________ _____________
Proud officer of the IMPULSE family

Roseman - Hunter lvl 50 (main)
Rosomir - LM lvl 50
Rosaran - Guard lvl 20

Gilrain server

[MéLAnoR]

THIS POST IS REGARDİNG HUNTER SOLO COMBAT PLAY , but you can share your ideasabout other perspectives of the game like fellowship,rading, pvmp encounters.

ok lets start discussing our melee weapon options in the endgame.
I have Crafted tier 5 weapons in my mind such as :

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/5360/obaszg3.jpg

Feel free to discuss about options , i know we haven't seen Book 12 ourselves yet but i have sufficient data in post no.1 , check the first page of this thread.You can sugggest other weapons too but these are the ones that came to my mind most usefull.
A) OBAS + MASD
B) MASD + MASD
C) MASM +MASM
D) MASM + MASD


Note : Keep in mind that the overall melee damage comes from mainhand weapon ( above the ones left) , whereas the speed is calculated from average rate of both stats of the weapons.

Maces in the game (http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/Special:Advancedsearch?type=weapon&action=search&weapon_type%5B%5D=1h_mace&sort=ileveld)
Daggers in the game (http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/Special:Advancedsearch?type=weapon&action=search&weapon_type%5B%5D=dagger&sort=ileveld)

[Scappydog]

Personally I'll stick with my pair of Mirrored Daggers. I can really only see me using the new melee skills for the focus gain to get off a Pen shot and the Swift Stroke buff to reduce damage. In that context it doesn't really matter what weapons you have and I prefer the stats from the daggers.

[MéLAnoR]

Book 11 current Hunter melee analysis with dual maces :
ok i ran a dual mace test REGARDING STUNS and here are the results :
My setup is ( remember this is not an organised setup for endgame , but just for this test):
http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/3038/screenshot00039jf0.th.jpg (http://img505.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshot00039jf0.jpg)

I attacked lvl 33-34 elite orc combatants from melee distance with only hunter melee skills ( except rare swift bow attack after stuns).

Sample size : 20 elite orcs

Average combat duration for each encounter : 59 secs

Succesfull stub effect seen during total 20 encounters : 11

Note : i 've seen twice stuns during some encounters.

some combat log :

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/7880/screenshot00037vl5.th.jpg (http://img505.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshot00037vl5.jpg)

You can ask why did i tested this , the purpose here is to see how often stuns occur with maces which allows us to cast inductional skills in close combat.Here is a hint :


http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/4343/screenshot00035cw3.th.jpg (http://img143.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshot00035cw3.jpg)

---------------------------------------------------------------

This is just a test which i'll redo after book 12 but seeing the results i may equip dual maces ( MASM) or MASM on mainhand plus a MASD at offhand.

Ok , now discuss..

[Halborn]

My plan is a MASM in main hand and MASD in off hand because you get the agi boost with the dagger but also the slight might and damage range boost with the mace thus dealing more melee damage than a spear
I have noted that with a spear its less damage in melee and if you got 3 mobs on you solo you cant let off arrows meaning that you will die but your melee skills can save you by killing 1 mob thus allowing your bow to be off use
THis is just what my plan is

An interesting test would be the spear and dagger in melee against those orcs see which is quickest

[Glantir]

In a Dev Chat they say it will give a melee Stance for Hunters, but i dont read anything about a Stance in the Patchnotes.

Are these changes passive or will come a new stance?

[Scappydog]

I don't recall reading about a new stance in patch notes. The changes as far as I am aware are to the skills themselves, if you have them slotted they will work in the new way as soon as Book 12 goes live.

[MéLAnoR]

There is an official thread about upcoming class changes which you can ask questions to be answered by devs here :
http://community.codemasters.com/forum/showthread.php?t=258612&page=1&pp=10
Please feed your questions ,hunter community hasn't been communicated for so long !
We can have official responses :)

[Scappydog]

Not sure we'll get any answers tho. The thread specifically mentions changes to Guardians and Burglars as it is their month.

I think you have covered the points I wanted to know in your post anyway Mel, I just hope there aren't any un-announced changes this time around.

[MéLAnoR]

Not sure we'll get any answers tho. The thread specifically mentions changes to Guardians and Burglars as it is their month.

I think you have covered the points I wanted to know in your post anyway Mel, I just hope there aren't any un-announced changes this time around.Yeah but we're a class seeing fundamental changes too and yet haven't seen responses for so long , since DangerDan is here , i'd say go spam your questions!
Just peww peww him a bit :D

[Scappydog]

The post you made has gone Mel. Did you delete it? Or did the Mods?

[MéLAnoR]

The post you made has gone Mel. Did you delete it? Or did the Mods?I did not delete it.
Is it gone really?
*sigh* I think being a hunter sucks due to lack of comminication shown towards to class by Devs.
This is becoming my new signature btw.
Edit : confirmed .. Yeah my post is gone possibly deleted by mobs due to the fact that the thread is devoted to Guardians and Burglars , i'm happy for those classes , they have waited for such a long time for their month and get a nice boost in the end , no fundamental downside changes and from what i see , plus they're getting nice feedbacks from Devs.
I'm really dissappointed about not seeing a single Dev post here for months and yet we don't have any chance left to communicate directly with them on these forums about class changes untill a new class boost comes onboard which is probably not gonna happen in near future..
Sure they don't have to , I understand , but come on it'd be a nice attitude ..
*sigh*

[Scappydog]

I agree Mel. It was good to see the Devs actually giving people some direct contact about alterations to their class. One can but hope that they offer the same opportunity to the other classes as well.

[MéLAnoR]

I agree Mel. It was good to see the Devs actually giving people some direct contact about alterations to their class. One can but hope that they offer the same opportunity to the other classes as well.Yes , it's very nice and i hope they continue to release those feedback threads allowing players to reach devs directly.
Maybe , one day hunter players have that privilige too :)
I look too optimistic i know :P

* * *
Ok , back to the topic..
This is VALENTINE'S DAY and i wish every single hunter out there a new hunter gameplay experience full of love :P
Too bad i'll be drinking some wine with my girlfriend while you guys are joying with your new toys :D
Please , continue to feed this thread with your own book 12 hunter gameplay experiences , bugs , overall changes so that we can collect all available info in one main thread making it easier to access and comphrehensive to discuss. :)

[OMWiener]

some unannounced changes in book 12, i'm gonna wait and see how it turns out though, before going ballistic. I've asked a questions about it in dev corner. Let's hope it doesn't get deleted.

our power cost is increased again on some bow skills at least (too bad we can't login to book 11 and see the differences)

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=119990

And the 6/6 set bonus on the aurochs set is changed, but definitely not bothered about that.

[Scappydog]

Why doesn't this surprise me!!

Every book has been the same, these little 'gems' that never get mentioned in the patch notes. No one seems to have spotted it on Roheryn tho which I find odd, maybe its only been added for the final release version?

Each damned book makes it harder and harder to juggle your stats. I'd been dropping some fate to try and boost other stats in readiness for Book 12, now it looks like its rethink time again.

[Scappydog]

There are some reports from US Forums, that Blindside and Swift Bow are occasionally not adding the correct amount of focus.

[Marshall3]

No word about fix to Elf Bow Damage Trait!

its not working? cause i have been using it for a while, so im just wondering.

[Belion_]

There are some reports from US Forums, that Blindside and Swift Bow are occasionally not adding the correct amount of focus.

oh that is just AWESOME!

god dammit danger dan lied when he said this book would go hunter nerf free AGAIN

:\

****...

[Belion_]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Belion_
how will the new ranged mechanics on champions and guardians effect hunters? are we still goin to have a superior range advantage or are the devs trying to make this moot?


In the end Let Fly ended up at its previous range of 30m, but with a much larger damage add for the particular reason of not moving in on the Hunter's range advantage. It also now initiates auto-attack on use.

thats from the dev thread looks like they listend to us hunters moaning about our range advantage after all! ;)

[Scappydog]

its not working? cause i have been using it for a while, so im just wondering.

TBH I don't think anyone is really sure. If you equip the trait, it doesn't show the added +2% in the tooltips like the other traits with +2% do. We have been asking about this for ages and never recieved any reply. So is it a bug with the tooltip or a bug with the trait?

[Galad / Lews]

No comment ....

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=119842

WHY ????

[MéLAnoR]

just came back home from Valentine's night and really tired to check changes with too much alcohol *sigh*
power sink again you said? oh no..i feel like a rabbit running after a carrot tied to a stick every patch run around her and there, adapt this adapt that , change stats , go over equipments , reconsider traits .. :D
oh my .. somebody hand me a Parol or ibuprofen =/

[Scappydog]

Just run a quick test on focus gain from shots.

Quick Shot: Gave 0 or 1 focus ( had 3 zeroes in a row ). However on occasion I got an extra focus point after autoattack fired off following QS, giving a focus gain of 2.

Swift Bow : Gave 1 or 2 focus ( never saw it give zero ). Again on a few occasions I got an extra focus point following an autoattack giving a focus gain of 3.

There is something very weird going on. It's like there is a random roll now to see how much focus the shot gives you with maybe an added chance of a focus point from autoattack. Is this an intentional change? or there is another bug!

Would be interested to hear if anyone else sees this with focus gain from shots.

The focus loss from movement is definately less.

Mel, you don't need a pain killer, try anti-depressants. I start taking them about a week before a book is released now.

[MéLAnoR]

Just run a quick test on focus gain from shots.

Quick Shot: Gave 0 or 1 focus ( had 3 zeroes in a row ). However on occasion I got an extra focus point after autoattack fired off following QS, giving a focus gain of 2.

Swift Bow : Gave 1 or 2 focus ( never saw it give zero ). Again on a few occasions I got an extra focus point following an autoattack giving a focus gain of 3.

There is something very weird going on. It's like there is a random roll now to see how much focus the shot gives you with maybe an added chance of a focus point from autoattack. Is this an intentional change? or there is another bug!

Would be interested to hear if anyone else sees this with focus gain from shots.

The focus loss from movement is definately less.

Mel, you don't need a pain killer, try anti-depressants. I start taking them about a week before a book is released now.They have too many side-effects :P
I'll check the focus bug which is probably caused by the new "lessened focus lose on run" feature not updating focus bar as it 's supposed to be.

----------------------

I would like to collect all what is new for the Hunter in Book 12. Please try to collect facts and not just complain The following points seem to be of interest.

- Traps and Rain of Thorns
How is the resist rate?

- Fear – Bards Arrow
How does the new fear mechanic work?

- Skill changes according to Patchnotes
How do the effect gameplay?

- Hidden changes in our Skills (not in the Patchnotes)
Any?

- New Weapons, Items for the Hunter (especcially for lvl 50)

• Fear: Seems much better for me now, resists is „low, targe runs away straight and therefore you gain more time. DoT doesnt brake fear in almost all cases.

• There are reports, that Swift Bow and Quick shot have a random focus gain, can you confirm this?

• Pen Shot seems to have an increased Power cost, can you confirm this? Are other skils effected?



I used fear on an elite warg and saw it run straight away and reused fear after puting a dot on him , fear did not break.I actually tried fearing the mob and after getting a high distance begin running towards it.The warg is a lvl +33 elite one rausgok i recall ( dol dinen quest warg) and i did not missed any autoattack on run .I think the lesssened %75 hit rate is just for even lvl mobs , you have more chance to hit a low lvl mob during run.


Without any stance penetrating shot is requirng 126 power for me , with strg stance it is 145 power !
I haven't been able to test RoT and study trap yet and gonna check the focus bug mentioned.
now i'll share my first post book 12 melee analysis below ..



and a quick summary from US fellow hunters which has tested the update on Roheryn previously :

Originally Posted by NameAlreadyTaken


I guess if you've held off on making your gear selection you don't fall in to that "Most Hunters have changed their gear 3 or 4 times" group from your first post. I also find your premise that for every one good thing Turbine does they jack three things up a bit, well, overboard. It would explain the complaints about this book though as there have been three 'major' complaints so far.

3 Jacked Up Things:

- Epic armor bonus change
- Power increase on Penetrating Shot
- Lack of documentation of said changes in the release notes

Per your assessment please pick the one thing Turbine did right this patch that offsets those three items:

- Swift Stroke does slightly more damage and adds an 8% Parry bonus
- Blindside does more damage and adds 3 Focus
- Scourging Blow does more damage
- Agile Rejoinder does more damage, activates faster, and cannot miss
- Focus is lost at a dramatically reduced rate when moving
- Merciful Shot can be used at 50% mob health
- Bard's Arrow lands reliably again
- Pre-existing DOTs have a very low chance of breaking fear
- Mobs path reliably and straight away from me instead of running in stupid, useless circles three feet away
- Mobs will call a maximum of one link when fear wears off. Of course if you get a link it's because you aimed the mob at something on purpose...it's easy to control where things runs under fear now
- Traps work more reliably
- Sturdy Traps actually makes my traps sturdy
- Rain of Thorns roots mobs reliably again
- Crafted traps all cost much less ore per combine
- Fire and Light Oils cost fewer Scholar resources per combine
- Bow chants cost fewer Scholar resources per combine

I'd list the 102 damage Bow in Book 12 as something they did right too but it's an optional selection.

Personally I'm rather pleased, my Hunter is much more fun and effective than it was before. I'd like to hear why the Aurochs armor changed, and I'll complain right along with everyone else if it was on purpose, but let's try to avoid unnecessary hyperbole.

[MéLAnoR]

Ok let me share my post book 12 melee analysis regarding mace and dagger builts , but first i have to bump this up ( BOOK 11 MELEE ANALYSIS PREVOUSLY POSTED) sorry cant post them together in one post too many pictures ..

Book 11 current Hunter melee analysis with dual maces :
ok i ran a dual mace test REGARDING STUNS and here are the results :
My setup is ( remember this is not an organised setup for endgame , but just for this test):
http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/3038/screenshot00039jf0.th.jpg (http://img505.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshot00039jf0.jpg)

I attacked lvl 33-34 elite orc combatants from melee distance with only hunter melee skills ( except rare swift bow attack after stuns).

Sample size : 20 elite orcs

Average combat duration for each encounter : 59 secs

Succesfull stub effect seen during total 20 encounters : 11

Note : i 've seen twice stuns during some encounters.

some combat log :

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/7880/screenshot00037vl5.th.jpg (http://img505.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshot00037vl5.jpg)

You can ask why did i tested this , the purpose here is to see how often stuns occur with maces which allows us to cast inductional skills in close combat.Here is a hint :


http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/4343/screenshot00035cw3.th.jpg (http://img143.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshot00035cw3.jpg)

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This is just a test which i'll redo after book 12 but seeing the results i may equip dual maces ( MASM) or MASM on mainhand plus a MASD at offhand.

Ok , now discuss..ok now the book 12 version , see below ..

[MéLAnoR]

Book 12 Hunter melee analysis with dual maces :
My setup is ( remember this is not an organised setup for endgame , but just for this test):
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/6435/49586890rg2.th.jpg (http://img155.imageshack.us/my.php?image=49586890rg2.jpg)

I attacked lvl 33-34 elite orc combatants from melee distance with only hunter melee skills ( this time i did not use swift bow on occasional stuns nor barbed's arrow , only hunter melee skills.)

Sample size : 10 elite orcs

Average combat duration for each encounter : 47,6 secs ( no swift bow used again i underline it.) max time :51 sec / min : 41 sec ( this huge interval is caused by orc's disarm ability)

Succesfull stun effect seen during total 20 encounters : 7/10 total fights
Note : i 've seen twice stuns during some encounters.I thikn if you dual wield maces it's very possible to see at least one stun in a fight lasting more than 45 sec but this is not tested against even lvl mobs !

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More combat log :
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/7199/89443998ov0.th.jpg (http://img153.imageshack.us/my.php?image=89443998ov0.jpg)

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Book 12 Hunter melee analysis with dual daggers (MASD) :
I don't have enough sample size for this but i can guarantee that it takes longer ..
Average combat duration for each encounter : 58,5 secs
Note : Daggers don't have stun wield effect.

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/6719/21039616yk0.th.jpg (http://img530.imageshack.us/my.php?image=21039616yk0.jpg)

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Book 12 Hunter melee analysis with mace(PASM) on mainhand plus dagger(MASD) at offhand :
Sample size : 10 elite orcs

Average combat duration for each encounter : 44,9 secs ( no swift bow used again i underline it.) max time :49 sec / min : 39 sec ( this huge interval is caused by orc's disarm ability)

Succesfull stun effect seen during total 10 encounters : 3/10 total fights
Note : i 've not seen twice stuns during any encounters.

more combat log (Mace+dagger build) :
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/4339/47528952xv5.th.jpg (http://img530.imageshack.us/my.php?image=47528952xv5.jpg)

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Summary :



You need a high end damaging weapon on mainhand with decent type of damage not common.Imo Maces are best solution for this since they have stun wield affect.


Dual daggers take longer time for melee fights but seems best solution for raid and long fellowship fights which you'd need ICPR ( thus you can use ornate black ash spear at mainhand , it has additional parry buff)


Dual maces present you most frequent rate of stuns for long fights lasting more than 45 secs but still you have a chance to see more than two stuns anytime the mob is not immune.It does not increase your overall damage rate with dual maces instead lowers speed rate of autoattacks but it's negligible at small sample size you see above , need at least 100 killing blow tests for more accurate results.


Imo Mace on mainhand plus an offhand fast dagger with good stats is the best build here for solo combat play.Your stun chance seems to be lowered compared to dual mace setup ( again the stun rates may increase with more sample size regarding mace+dagger build) but you don't seem to do lessened damage points.Only autoattack rate seems to differ , changing your damage per second rate which is not essential in lotro compared to high end damage.


Plus it's not very logical to sacrifice 1,5 ICPR sloting dual maces instead of daggers ,so that's why i find mace + dagger setup most balanced and usefull here.


If you compare the two analysis pre and post update you notice the faster killing blow, even if i did not use ocassional swift arrow skills applied after occasional stuns new melee fight seems much faster and smooth.Good job Dangerdan !
/MeL

[Beorrahn]

Imo Mace on mainhand plus an offhand fast dagger with good stats is the best build here for solo combat play.Your stun chance seems to be lowered compared to dual mace setup ( again the stun rates may increase with more sample size regarding mace+dagger build) but you don't seem to do lessened damage points.Only autoattack rate seems to differ , changing your damage per second rate which is not essential in lotro compared to high end damage.


You know, you could have just checked the Burglar forum, we'd have told you that Mace MH and Dagger OH is the best melee weapon set-up for non-Champion dual wielders ;).

Edit : confirmed .. Yeah my post is gone possibly deleted by mobs due to the fact that the thread is devoted to Guardians and Burglars

FYI your post wasn't the only one that the mods deleted. Any post that was too critical (or asked the wrong questions) was hacked out of the thread by Codies before the Turbines Devs saw them. Mine fell under the "too critical" clause, yours under the "nothing to do with Burglars or Guardians".

[MéLAnoR]

You know, you could have just checked the Burglar forum, we'd have told you that Mace MH and Dagger OH is the best melee weapon set-up for non-Champion dual wielders ;).



FYI your post wasn't the only one that the mods deleted. Any post that was too critical (or asked the wrong questions) was hacked out of the thread by Codies before the Turbines Devs saw them. Mine fell under the "too critical" clause, yours under the "nothing to do with Burglars or Guardians".Thanks for the advises :)
Well i know the thread was specific but we don't have any chance left to communicate with devs , i tried my chance ..
It's nice to see a burglar here though , mostly people drop here to annoy hunters or whine ;)
*hands a bottle of dragon wine*

[Beorrahn]

Thanks for the advises :)
Well i know the thread was specific but we don't have any chance left to communicate with devs , i tried my chance ..
It's nice to see a burglar here though , mostly people drop here to annoy hunters or whine ;)


T'be honest with you, I have a Hunter, levelled him up to 43 and got bored of the class.

They nuke very well, they port, they track, personally I only see the same resist rates on traps and RoT as I do on my Burglars stun/mez/debuff/conj so can't really complain about that ;), it does exactly what it says on the tin.

I just find it a bit of a boring class to play compared to my Burglar, but check in on the Hunter forum every so often anyway to see how other people find their Hunters ;).

[sloth]

T'be honest with you, I have a Hunter, levelled him up to 43 and got bored of the class.

They nuke very well, they port, they track, personally I only see the same resist rates on traps and RoT as I do on my Burglars stun/mez/debuff/conj so can't really complain about that ;), it does exactly what it says on the tin.

I just find it a bit of a boring class to play compared to my Burglar, but check in on the Hunter forum every so often anyway to see how other people find their Hunters ;).

I know what you mean m8, but its a common misconseption that hunters just ping ping. You dont realy get to understand the class and its rolls untill you get to lvl 50 and have all your legendarys slotted :)
Going to the Ettens with df on cd and being faced with a reaver/warg 1v1 and using every skill open to you in the correct order and winning.... well what can i say, after that anything PvE throws at you is less of a challenge.

Same as any class i suppose, the proof of the pudding is once you have all skills and know when to use them, hunter can be pretty inefective untill then.




Loper lvl 50 hunter *rank 7*
Gilrain

[MéLAnoR]

T'be honest with you, I have a Hunter, levelled him up to 43 and got bored of the class.

They nuke very well, they port, they track, personally I only see the same resist rates on traps and RoT as I do on my Burglars stun/mez/debuff/conj so can't really complain about that ;), it does exactly what it says on the tin.

I just find it a bit of a boring class to play compared to my Burglar, but check in on the Hunter forum every so often anyway to see how other people find their Hunters ;).Let' s take moors as example.You guys have very nice survivability tools and complex chain of skills which make combatplay more varible and fun , nonetheless i must say Burglars might be the hardest class to learn to play effectively but if you can manage , most fun class too.
After book 12 our survival rate is increased hence we have more buttons to push nowadays other than peww peww till warg packs arrive.
Well i always find burglar class amazing seeing even one can stand against 3-4 average ranked creeps if certain skill cooldowns available.We hunters are of course not even close to it but i'm really loving the changes making me able to jump on high ranked creeps as solo encounters.
However what i dislike in this game is Developers just don't often give new toys or content but degrade current ones so making the game so-called chalenging , which simply can be called as nerfs.

[Beorrahn]

I know what you mean m8, but its a common misconseption that hunters just ping ping. You dont realy get to understand the class and its rolls untill you get to lvl 50 and have all your legendarys slotted :)
Going to the Ettens with df on cd and being faced with a reaver/warg 1v1 and using every skill open to you in the correct order and winning.... well what can i say, after that anything PvE throws at you is less of a challenge.


It's almost a shame to point this out but:

I have all my legendary skills. The only legendary trait my Hunter is missing is the Bow of the Righteous, which isn't a skill, it's a passive effect.

I have all my normal skills too, apart from a couple ports and the Heartseeker.

As for PvMP, my main is a Burglar. I'm familiar with 6-vs-1 combat and t'be fair, my Burg simply has far more skills that are used in PvMP - every single Burg skill gets used, Hunters use about 12 of thiers ;).

Sad to say, the Hunter class really is just pew pew. Fun to kill mobs quickly but I get bored standing in 1 place hitting the same few buttons :).

Different strokes for different folks it what it comes down to, I like running around a lot and having a different skill for every situation, some people prefer standing there. I did roll the Hunter to give me a change of combat style but it just didn't work out - it'd be far more fun in the moors but in PvE (which is where you're stuck until 50) it just gets really monotonous.

Of course, if you want to talk about really boring classes in PvP, it's got to be the Guardian. AoE 1, Aoe2, AoE1, AoE2, hoping that at some point a creep will accidentally target you so you can use a reactive skill ;).

Personally I'd like to take the Hunter into the moors just for a change from the Burg[1] but really can't find the will to finish levelling him up. On the bright side, the new/changed Angmar quests would make levelling even easier (I didn't think it'd be possible in this game).

[1] I rarely take the Burg in any more - in all honesty it's almost embarrasing to take him in these days, they are ludicrously good in the 'moors with the new gear and the change to spider's webs. I can't imagine any Burglar dying in the moors now unless they have at least 1 full raid focussing on them, which does take some of the fun out of it.

Proof that my hunter was purely rolled as an alternate moors character is that I rolled a Hobbit Hunter called "Hoarhallow Gardener" ;).

[MéLAnoR]

It's almost a shame to point this out but:

I have all my legendary skills. The only legendary trait my Hunter is missing is the Bow of the Righteous, which isn't a skill, it's a passive effect.

I have all my normal skills too, apart from a couple ports and the Heartseeker.

As for PvMP, my main is a Burglar. I'm familiar with 6-vs-1 combat and t'be fair, my Burg simply has far more skills that are used in PvMP - every single Burg skill gets used, Hunters use about 12 of thiers .

Sad to say, the Hunter class really is just pew pew. Fun to kill mobs quickly but I get bored standing in 1 place hitting the same few buttons .

Different strokes for different folks it what it comes down to, I like running around a lot and having a different skill for every situation, some people prefer standing there. I did roll the Hunter to give me a change of combat style but it just didn't work out - it'd be far more fun in the moors but in PvE (which is where you're stuck until 50) it just gets really monotonous.

Of course, if you want to talk about really boring classes in PvP, it's got to be the Guardian. AoE 1, Aoe2, AoE1, AoE2, hoping that at some point a creep will accidentally target you so you can use a reactive skill .

Personally I'd like to take the Hunter into the moors just for a change from the Burg[1] but really can't find the will to finish levelling him up. On the bright side, the new/changed Angmar quests would make levelling even easier (I didn't think it'd be possible in this game).

[1] I rarely take the Burg in any more - in all honesty it's almost embarrasing to take him in these days, they are ludicrously good in the 'moors with the new gear and the change to spider's webs. I can't imagine any Burglar dying in the moors now unless they have at least 1 full raid focussing on them, which does take some of the fun out of it.

Proof that my hunter was purely rolled as an alternate moors character is that I rolled a Hobbit Hunter called "Hoarhallow Gardener" .Hehe , really appreciate your point of view as a burglar Beo.Hope you continue to drop here from time to time ;)
Well i just like being a hunter for the title "hunter" , it gives me a nice feeling to track mobs and hunt them but you know it's nerfed in moors too *sigh* yet it's still usefull and i slot the stealth trait.Only i wish the class was not so popular like burglar class is used to be in early days of the game .Your number is getting higher too.Well Turbine seems to be watching class populations and since each one-class only player type has different styles and we see different views on each class forums , they also observe the quality of class forums.When a class gets so popular like Hunter as it was pre-book9 the quality of class forums fall down.Just check Whining threads 5-6 months before in US forums , sure if you can find them.Well i guess lotro is not meant to be a "one class-only" played MMORPG , this was my fault , i admit.Since i don't have much time lately to focus my alts i'll be sticking my hunter for a while and peww pewwing in these threads :)
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Hope everyone's doing fine with Book 12 changes even if we have some new bugs :)
/MeL

[Scappydog]

At the end of the day Mel, stick with what ever class you enjoy the most. I still love my hunter. I've tried other classes but have never taken them very far, still too much to do with the one I have.

As for Book 12, slowly getting used to it and the bugs/working as intended ( wish I knew which :) )

Feels strange using melee skills again, keep forgetting they are there its been so long since I used them.

[Beorrahn]

Hope everyone's doing fine with Book 12 changes even if we have some new bugs :)
/MeL

New bugs are a given in every patch, but they do get fixed eventually and I think Blindside makes up for it in the mean time ;). I was never impessed with Hunter melee skills (other than low cut for kiting) but the focus from that one is great.

As for nerfing in the moors - sooner or later, everything gets nerfed in PvP. It only takes enough people complaining to get skills (or entire classes) nerfed. That, t'be honest, I don't have a problem with. It's when those PvP-based nerfs affect PvE play I get irritated. Hell, the new Burglar toys came pre-nerfed so as to not cause any complaints in the 'moors ;).

But look on the bright side - Burgs and Hunters have both already had their nerfs, they're lining up the LMs instead now for nerf herding - have you seen how Orion wants Mez duration in the moors to go 10sec-5sec-nothing instead of the current DR?

I wonder how anyone is going to kill 7K+ hp creeps with 30%+ mitigations if that change goes through? We'll certainly need more Hunters to try to chew through that morale when they can't be mezzed or stunned or rooted ;)

[MéLAnoR]

New bugs are a given in every patch, but they do get fixed eventually and I think Blindside makes up for it in the mean time ;). I was never impessed with Hunter melee skills (other than low cut for kiting) but the focus from that one is great.

As for nerfing in the moors - sooner or later, everything gets nerfed in PvP. It only takes enough people complaining to get skills (or entire classes) nerfed. That, t'be honest, I don't have a problem with. It's when those PvP-based nerfs affect PvE play I get irritated. Hell, the new Burglar toys came pre-nerfed so as to not cause any complaints in the 'moors ;).

But look on the bright side - Burgs and Hunters have both already had their nerfs, they're lining up the LMs instead now for nerf herding - have you seen how Orion wants Mez duration in the moors to go 10sec-5sec-nothing instead of the current DR?

I wonder how anyone is going to kill 7K+ hp creeps with 30%+ mitigations if that change goes through? We'll certainly need more Hunters to try to chew through that morale when they can't be mezzed or stunned or rooted ;)Well said , I thought burglars 'd be nerfed along loremasters with this update but i'm glad it did not happen at least not remarkably.These two classes especially loremaster is a key factor of succes in pve fellowship and raids , don't want them to be nerfed affecting pve badly.Hunters are still recovering from nerfs , we're doing average atm i'm happy with changes.
I think that pre-nerfed additions to burglar is a good thing , cause if you were given overpowered toys it'd be a really pain to visit forums among creep whine threads ( hell yet you have many nerf burglar threads alreadly lol) At least they 're still concerned about loremasters CC abilities more than our dps or your survivability abilities.
I agree with you about pvp bringing nerfs eventually , we must admit it's not that easy to balance a game which has major pve and minor pvp, but from time to time Devs should listen to player's concerns not just whine threads. :)