Hunter Nurfs the Truth is out.....

[HardOnails]

From dev chat 4/12

http://www.lotrolife.com/dev_chat_4_12_07/

Erirdar "Hunters are the squishiest class besides the loremaster, and they have no self-heal or pet. Are there any plans to make Hunters a more playable solo class?"
[LOTRO]Patience The Hunter was recently given a pass in Book 10, and we think it's in a pretty good place right now. It's currently the second-most played class in the game. We'll continue to look at feedback from the players as well as examining the data the game produces, and make revisions as necessary - but for now, don't expect any major changes.


So the whole reason for the nurfs is we are popular and despite the 1000s of hostile posts about the total mess they have made of the hunter they still think we are perfect.

So just like AC2 where Turbine nurfed that game to bankrupcy there doing there best to mess lotro up as well.

What a total male chicken ....

[OMWiener]

And you forgot one thing:

Qin "Hunters get it very easy to travel around, are there any plans for the other classes, like more quick travel routes at certain levels to make it a bit more equal?"
[LOTRO]Annuvin To re-word your question: Do you plan to water down the Hunter's class role?

That is just sad, sad but true. I feel the only reason to take me along for a quest anymore, is for the stupid travel thingy. And frankly, that says it all, we don't bring anything extra or new to the battle, that other classes do......

And indeed, if they really think the hunter class is perfect the way it is....*sigh* (it's hard to believe they read these forums or the US ones for that matter)

[Murky Majare]

Well,

Look at the bright side... if we are "perfect"... No more nerfs!!

Yay



(Btw... I'm gullible and naive)

[Insomniel]

Well, the class probably was in good place after Book 10 pass, however Book 11 pass removed it from a good place and moved to the place of many deaths.

As for Hunter's main role, maybe we really should go on strike - taxi drivers unite !

[MéLAnoR]

Well i'll check book 12 and give Turbine one last chance , playing the class since late beta and spending countless days on it , I may even consider a retire or semi-retirement(i.e: attending only kin events)But hey imho hunters
still will be fun even if they're kept nerfed or made broken concerning their solo combat play.We'll see with the update how it goes..
/MeL

and just wanted to quote a US fellow Hunter about upcoming changes :

NameAlreadyTaken (http://forums.lotro.com/member.php?u=176228) http://lorimages.turbine.com/forums/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif vbmenu_register("postmenu_1339312", true);
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,395


Re: no love from the devs
- Patience isn't a Dev.
- Patience doesn't know what's going on with the classes as it's not her job.
- That was a rather badly worded question. They never get answered.
- A Dev already came here and told us they're working on Fear + DOTs. He asked for more feedback regarding CC resists too, so if we're lucky that's being looked at too.
- An actual Dev already hinted at other coming changes in the Euro chat: improvements to melee skills, lower costs to crafted traps & oils, and an improvement to Merciful Shot.

/agreed and looking forward to book 12.

[Tranak]

Merciful Shot....? Why does that sound familiar? Could it be that skill that I used all the time before Book 10 and now forget I even have???


Noooo don't let them change anything with us again....haven't they learnt that whenever they "fix" one thing the nerf bat snickers behind them as it swings in to attack other things.

*Hides in corner muttering"

Not again...not again please for the love of Glorfindel

[Sirak]

For me these words are really a shame for the devs, or whoever is this guy answering:

Qin "Hunters get it very easy to travel around, are there any plans for the other classes, like more quick travel routes at certain levels to make it a bit more equal?"
[LOTRO]Annuvin To re-word your question: Do you plan to water down the Hunter's class role?


THE CLASS ROLE of the HUNTER is PORTING!????

Sorry, but an apology is the least we should get! What an .....

[Oby]

What's with all the whining? I have no problems whatsoever with my hunter, and I get asked to join groups even when there's no taxi service required. Maybe you people should stop crying about the fear nerf and learn to be useful.

[Turkisch]

Are there any plans to make Hunters a more playable solo class?

Last time I checked hutners were the best playable class solo. I find it very easy to solo 3 mobs at the same time. Just use traps and fear (just remember to not break it) I dont think there is any other class that can kill things as quick as a hunter..... Still I would like to be upgraded for once iso nerfed.

[Insomniel]

What's with all the whining? I have no problems whatsoever with my hunter, and I get asked to join groups even when there's no taxi service required. Maybe you people should stop crying about the fear nerf and learn to be useful.

Well, I have already heard on my server "LFM 5/6 for CD need hunter" - so I was positively (and naively) surprised, but then it came "LFM 5/6 for CD need hunter with camp fire near CD". So, yes, it seems that main class role for hunter is being taxi. Heh, I was even thinking, ok I can port you there, bring me Rune of Winged as a payment :)

[zimoo]

I'm enjoying my hunter a lot at the moment, receiving more rift invites than I know what to do with >_<

For the first time ever on the weekend I soloed an elite my own level, I was so pleased when that damn angmarim finally fell, and even more pleased that he didn't put a 4min fear debuff on me when he was at 50 morale ^^

Merciful shot I use all the time. I always have the required amount of focus left when the mob drops below 25% morale, so use it as a killing blow (or in the case of soloing elites, spamming it until the mob has the courtesy to die).

[Kuku]

The last thing that hunters need is a boost to melee dps. What I would perhaps like to see is a move that will somehow help us deal with multiple mobs at melee range. I disagree with the sentiment posted earlier, and that we can easily solo 3 mobs. It greatly depends on which 3 mobs; a nasty one + two flappy friends can mean death, as some birds will interrupt often enough to make you lucky to get off even a Quick Shot. Even a weak add helping a hard elite means disaster, as the add saps our already low supply of morale, and the added interrupts can decrease our damage output to 50% or lower.

Not that I think that that's bad... please do not boost our melee DPS. A hunter should be weak in melee, and a hunter who lets a ranged fight turn quickly into a melee one should be scolded for not using the tools at his disposal the right way. I do think hunters were in a decent spot after book 10, the problem is that book 11 broke all of our tools we use to keep enemies at range.

Leave melee alone. Fix DoTs breaking Fear, and decrease trap, fear and root resists to reasonable levels. Decrease our insane power consumption, or at least give a bigger power bonus in Endurance stance. In other words, don't ply "fix" upon "fix" upon "fix". Tweak the numbers a little, then get more feedback and look at your statistics again.

Above all, do not try to "fix" an apparently overly large hunter population by nerfing it until we've all rolled alts :(

[OMWiener]

Last time I checked hutners were the best playable class solo. I find it very easy to solo 3 mobs at the same time. Just use traps and fear (just remember to not break it) I dont think there is any other class that can kill things as quick as a hunter..... Still I would like to be upgraded for once iso nerfed.

Mmmh you can't use fear in a well populated area cuz they will call friends. Traps meh i don't like relying on bought items which cost me a lot and have a cooldown of five minutes...

What's with all the whining? I have no problems whatsoever with my hunter, and I get asked to join groups even when there's no taxi service required. Maybe you people should stop crying about the fear nerf and learn to be useful.

I'll learn to be usefull if you can tell anything we're usefull at. Damage? meh, champs outdamage and aggro us,even ministrels have some pretty decent attacks now. Our crowd control sucks.

I 'whine' because we don't bring anything new to a raid (luckily for us most people don't realise it, people are still asking me for my uber damage, joke on them really). If they are making us a nuker class , then they have to make sure to not upgrade the damage off the other classes too much (except for champs). If they would just bring back our old crossbows or other nice damage bows or whatever, you wouldn't hear a lot of us whining anymore....IF we are the DPS class, then no one else should be....(except for champs)

Perhaps turbine made too many classes and tried to spread out the skills too much. Classes would be much more interesting if they could do more.

[Oby]

I'll learn to be usefull if you can tell anything we're usefull at. Damage? meh, champs outdamage and aggro us,even ministrels have some pretty decent attacks now. Our crowd control sucks.
Ok let's see. I can maintain a reasonably high dps practically forever, while generating almost zero agro and suffering no aoe or other damage from the targets. I can switch from one target to the next without having to move an inch, meaning I gain a few secs as compared to the champ (who may have higher burst dps), and I can instantly pull a mob off a minstrel's back. Being positioned at a distance allows me to get a good overview of what's going on, as opposed to melee classes, who often don't even notice when a monster has agroed a minstrel. I can do reasonable crowd control with lure/quick traps and rain of thorns, and with two skilled hunters in the group you can go as far as to ping-pong mobs between the two of you, while others are being ressed.

You seem to be stuck in the "I'm only useful if my dps is higher than everyone else's" mindset, and then standing back like a zombie while endlessly spamming the same two or three ranged skills.

[Ueauvan]

2nd highest number in class but what %age of those are 40+ and log on less than once a week? ie actiuve playing hunters, i know im not
o and personally i think i should have the highest single target dps but we dont, im not a taxi service
and the fire near CD thing, a friend who has left answered one lfs like that he grouped and ported to fire at which point he was dumped from the party and another class suddenly.

[OMWiener]

You seem to be stuck in the "I'm only useful if my dps is higher than everyone else's" mindset, and then standing back like a zombie while endlessly spamming the same two or three ranged skills.

FYI our class role was supposed to be damage, so yes i expect our dps to be higher then anyone elses. Why else would anyone need a hunter? a class is needed when they bring something new to the battle and in our case it was dps. I'm not stuck in dps, it's our class role for god's sake, well it was at least.

And I'm stil spamming the same four ranged skills mate and so are you. I don't call activating another skill every 5 min, a real good change of pace....You're still a zombie at end game instances, because there's nothing else you can do besides tapping those skills (as our crowd control against 50+ mobs sucks)

Ok let's see. I can maintain a reasonably high dps practically forever, while generating almost zero agro and suffering no aoe or other damage from the targets. I can switch from one target to the next without having to move an inch, meaning I gain a few secs as compared to the champ (who may have higher burst dps), and I can instantly pull a mob off a minstrel's back. Being positioned at a distance allows me to get a good overview of what's going on, as opposed to melee classes, who often don't even notice when a monster has agroed a minstrel. I can do reasonable crowd control with lure/quick traps and rain of thorns, and with two skilled hunters in the group you can go as far as to ping-pong mobs between the two of you, while others are being ressed.

You give a perfect example of what we could do IF we stop every 3/5 minutes to wait untill the next fight. I'll explain why.

1) First of all as stated before our dps isn't that great, unlike you think it is. If you have played with a good champ, you'll know what i mean (a good champ has controlled brun probably). And the fact that we generate zero aggro makes to fight really broing IMO. I liked the earlier days when i had to think about what skill to use, to switch between stances, etc... now i just stay in strength stance....now who's the zombie, i was less of a zombie before....

2)Granted, you can switch from one target to another easily

3) I don't know what experience you have, but in the end game instances, you can't automatically pull a mob from the ministrel. allow me to explain: Say the guardian pulls a mob with a couple of adds and he tries to get aggro from them all. As a good hunter you assist the tank or champ in taking down one. The ministrel is healing all the time when all of a sudden an add comes to him. Since you haven't targetted or shot this mob before (since you were assisting tank/champ), the ministrel has built up a lot more aggro compared to you. Even it strength stance it takes you quite a while to get it from him. Champs with their steal aggro skill or shout are way better. Although we do have the better vision of what's going on, a good ministrel just tells if he has aggro (by the way ministrels and loremaster have a great overview, again nothing new)

4) Our crowd control sucks. I'll say it again...traps can only be used once in 5 min..so you might trap one mob once yay....ROT can only be used once in 3 min with high focus cost...And on top of that, everything gets resisted like hell.

5) i grant that we can keep the mob busy for some time IF we have two hunters, but so can a champ as the OT

I'll say it again, i don't feel original, i don't feel i bring anything special to the battle. The only battle i feel usefull is the balrog (which is the funnest fight ever). Perhaps the melee changes would bring something exciting to my class, we'll just have to wait and see i guess...

[Turkisch]

First of all as stated before our dps isn't that great, unlike you think it is. If you have played with a good champ, you'll know what i mean (a good champ has controlled brun probably). And the fact that we generate zero aggro makes to fight really broing IMO. I liked the earlier days when i had to think about what skill to use, to switch between stances, etc... now i just stay in strength stance....now who's the zombie, i was less of a zombie before....

If I use my strenght stance in the rift I pull nearly every mob on me. So I need to use my Endurance. What are your stats like? If I start blasting away in strenght stance I would be death pretty quickly. My agi in the rift is usually 500 with the buffs and all. Dont know if there really is a great need to go above 400 but it might explain why every mob seems to love me (if I'm not carefull)

[OMWiener]

these are my stats unbuffed, i could switch around abit to have more Agi, but prefer the morale for now. The bow is Forvengwath and doesn't have a reduction of threat nor do i use whisper draw. I still need to get me a etched beryl rings though (oh god, that horrible crit chance^^), but that would only change my might and will (using brilliant MM ones now).

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/5997/statsrw0.jpg

Anyway i guess we all have our opinions. I just wish i had some more tactical skills (more DOT's, like some sort of clobber for a hunter, a sort of aggro shot,...) to make the fight more interesting.

[Oby]

The bow is Forvengwath and doesn't have a reduction of threat nor do i use whisper draw.
That bow does westernesse damage, which is about as crappy as it can get as an all-around bow. I really hope you carry other bows with you and pay attention to your targets' weaknesses, otherwise that might be your problem right there.

[OMWiener]

That bow does westernesse damage, which is about as crappy as it can get as an all-around bow. I really hope you carry other bows with you and pay attention to your targets' weaknesses, otherwise that might be your problem right there.

I know very well it isn't the best damage type, but do remember that Forvengwath has a armour reduction which makes up for that. Let alone that you have the demoralize once in a while (which does extra damage). I've tested it and it doesn't make much of a difference compared to 'better' bows.

I carry around crossbow of hunt and celegdur too. It's always a hard choice between celegdur and Forvengwath.

Ps: i would just like to note that nowhere has there appeared a certain list of which mobs is vulnerable to which, so there's no certainty westernesse is any worse then beleriand. However for high end instances, Celegdur would be the best choice since bosses are prone to be ancient evil and therefore weak against beleriand (i know the Balrog is).

[Beorrahn]

Ps: i would just like to note that nowhere has there appeared a certain list of which mobs is vulnerable to which,


Now in chart form:

http://www.kiirkas.com/lotrofiles/dmg_resist_mitigation.html

Also something to remember: sometimes a balance must be struck between a resistance and a mitigation. One example would be The Unseen. They have a strong resistance to physical damage but a weak mitigation to Beleriand and Westernesse type damage. So a melee combatant would ideally choose a weapon with one of those two damage types for an encounter.

I did check some of the mitigations and resistances with my lore master (up to L35) and with a random sample the information all matched up with what's in the official LOTRO World Companion.

Taken from the Turbine forum.

[HardOnails]

FYI our class role was supposed to be damage, so yes i expect our dps to be higher then anyone elses. Why else would anyone need a hunter? a class is needed when they bring something new to the battle and in our case it was dps. I'm not stuck in dps, it's our class role for god's sake, well it was at least.

And I'm stil spamming the same four ranged skills mate and so are you. I don't call activating another skill every 5 min, a real good change of pace....You're still a zombie at end game instances, because there's nothing else you can do besides tapping those skills (as our crowd control against 50+ mobs sucks)



You give a perfect example of what we could do IF we stop every 3/5 minutes to wait untill the next fight. I'll explain why.

1) First of all as stated before our dps isn't that great, unlike you think it is. If you have played with a good champ, you'll know what i mean (a good champ has controlled brun probably). And the fact that we generate zero aggro makes to fight really broing IMO. I liked the earlier days when i had to think about what skill to use, to switch between stances, etc... now i just stay in strength stance....now who's the zombie, i was less of a zombie before....

2)Granted, you can switch from one target to another easily

3) I don't know what experience you have, but in the end game instances, you can't automatically pull a mob from the ministrel. allow me to explain: Say the guardian pulls a mob with a couple of adds and he tries to get aggro from them all. As a good hunter you assist the tank or champ in taking down one. The ministrel is healing all the time when all of a sudden an add comes to him. Since you haven't targetted or shot this mob before (since you were assisting tank/champ), the ministrel has built up a lot more aggro compared to you. Even it strength stance it takes you quite a while to get it from him. Champs with their steal aggro skill or shout are way better. Although we do have the better vision of what's going on, a good ministrel just tells if he has aggro (by the way ministrels and loremaster have a great overview, again nothing new)

4) Our crowd control sucks. I'll say it again...traps can only be used once in 5 min..so you might trap one mob once yay....ROT can only be used once in 3 min with high focus cost...And on top of that, everything gets resisted like hell.

5) i grant that we can keep the mob busy for some time IF we have two hunters, but so can a champ as the OT

I'll say it again, i don't feel original, i don't feel i bring anything special to the battle. The only battle i feel usefull is the balrog (which is the funnest fight ever). Perhaps the melee changes would bring something exciting to my class, we'll just have to wait and see i guess...

sums it up pretty accuratly

i cant see any melee changes making any difference unless melee skills create focus

the raft of useless skills and crafted items that turbine think give function to us when in reality they do nothing just show they have no idea how hunters function end game in raids etc

[OMWiener]

Taken from the Turbine forum.

Thanks for the info, mate. That gives a little bit more confirmation.Yet as the guy stated, he didn't check all of them with his loremaster and untill he does or anyone else for that matter, there's is no certain list. I do admit that all info seems to point at Beleriand being the best damage(other sites tell a similar story), but as i said the Armor rend on Forvengwath slightly makes up for that and the demoralize. Anyway we're going off topic here.

[Elcastor]

i agree with the general sentiment in this thread. i dont know about anyone else, but in my game manual it summerises Hunter as 'Nuker' not 'Taxi'

[Andoi]

Merciful shot I use all the time. I always have the required amount of focus left when the mob drops below 25% morale, so use it as a killing blow (or in the case of soloing elites, spamming it until the mob has the courtesy to die).
Ahh i remember that skill!
Havent used it since book 10 came out. =\

[Belion_]

Ahh i remember that skill!
Havent used it since book 10 came out. =\

yeh i know the feeling more out of habit since clicking it at 50% didnt wokr anymore. wasnt an overly great skill anyways swiftbow is about the same if irc

[Davo2436]

Guys I'm sorry but you still do more single target dps than all over classes but because of the nerfs you've received the gap is just less than what you were used to.

Travel is your secondary class role I'm sorry get used to it at least your role is useful to the fellowship unlike a guardian's whoose second role as dps is just a joke.

You should not be getting agro in a fellowship or raid. If the minstrel gets agro then either the tank or champ should be there to get it back. Hunters getting agro can cause more problems than it solves as the minstrels heals more raising their threat level.

Hunters are useful in the rift Zogtark comes to mind and all the times you have to kill that single target quickly. Granted you are low down on my personal list and fill those "spare" spots along with champs after we've got our two tanks, two minstrels and one of every class.

Davo

[Andoi]

Guys I'm sorry but you still do more single target dps than all over classes but because of the nerfs you've received the gap is just less than what you were used to.

Travel is your secondary class role I'm sorry get used to it at least your role is useful to the fellowship unlike a guardian's whoose second role as dps is just a joke.

You should not be getting agro in a fellowship or raid. If the minstrel gets agro then either the tank or champ should be there to get it back. Hunters getting agro can cause more problems than it solves as the minstrels heals more raising their threat level.

Hunters are useful in the rift Zogtark comes to mind and all the times you have to kill that single target quickly. Granted you are low down on my personal list and fill those "spare" spots along with champs after we've got our two tanks, two minstrels and one of every class.

Davo
Thanks for the tip :p
Any good hunter will never pull aggro anyway in fellowship and raid situations. And i still resent the fact that taxi can be considered one of our "roles". Went on taxi strike anyway. :p

[Cardemel]

Ahh i remember that skill!
Havent used it since book 10 came out. =\

Why would you not use merciful shot? It hits harder than any other, bar Heartseeker of course. I crit for up to 1200 with it (with around 400 agility), although 800 or so is more normal with mobs of about level 50.

[Andoi]

Why would you not use merciful shot? It hits harder than any other, bar Heartseeker of course. I crit for up to 1200 with it (with around 400 agility), although 800 or so is more normal with mobs of about level 50.
I would if i could, it is certainly an extremely damaging shot, especially on crits, but i never have that much focus - unless using intent concentration for the purposes of rain of thorns - and by the time i can use it (under 25%) the thing is already dead! im sure it didnt used to cost 6 focus? and when under 50%, it was brilliant. I think it looks nice though, has a green tint to it i think :)

[Underhorse]

Taken from the Turbine forum.
Beleriand for the win!

[Eelis Kiy]

I played hunter before the nerf, took a break from lotro and came back recently - and I still really enjoy it. It's interesting, diverse and useful. Trapping, tracking and movement de-buffs are very usefull skills. We still do a huge amount of dps and I have no problems soloing. We have a constant run speed buff and the instant travel is obviously great. The bow-chants and oils let you change your attacks depending on your situation and tbh hunters look s3xier than everyone else.

I do a lot of my questing with a Captain friend and we usually find a way round most round difficult quests using each others skills.

If you are only getting invited to groups for your insta travel skills maybe you need to find a new Kinship with real friends to level with.

People need to learn how to play the class effectively - manage your agro for starters!

I've started burgler, minstel and loremaster toons but so far I find Hunter most fun.

[MéLAnoR]

I would if i could, it is certainly an extremely damaging shot, especially on crits, but i never have that much focus - unless using intent concentration for the purposes of rain of thorns - and by the time i can use it (under 25%) the thing is already dead! im sure it didnt used to cost 6 focus? and when under 50%, it was brilliant. I think it looks nice though, has a green tint to it i think :)Well in pvmp nuke dmging skills are fundamental such as MS.You trap a creep with %75 morale left and raise your focus with IC up to 9 and do HS with some lucky crit you have a chance to drop him/her below %25 apply MS and slay forward.
In pvmp nothing is dead yet even if they're below %10 morale.

[nightbyday]

Well in pvmp nuke dmging skills are fundamental such as MS.You trap a creep with %75 morale left and raise your focus with IC up to 9 and do HS with some lucky crit you have a chance to drop him/her below %25 apply MS and slay forward.
In pvmp nothing is dead yet even if they're below %10 morale.
LOL so true i have seen people get killed in PvP when they were full HP and the other very low HP, in fact some player like wounded animal go 'kamikazi' when nearly dead.

[SFC1971]

The hunter in lotro is artilery, we hit from a distance, way behind the battle lines. It ain't an exciting job because it ain't supposed to be.

A hunter brings very important role to the battlefield, just that most hunters are incapable of figuring it out because they never played a minstrel.

A hunter DOES NOT TAKE DAMAGE IN A BATTLE!

Now, for one second try and figure out that this means, not by thinking as a hunter who just stands at the back and spams the same attacks over and over, but as one of the healing classes.

We reduce the workload on a minstrels. Ask a minstrel about what they prefer, hunters or champs. Next time you are in a battle, with a champ stop looking at their DPS and look at their morale bar. Then wonder how much minstrels enjoy having to contantly heal the champs as well as the guardian?

What a good hunter brings to the party is large reliable dose of damage that doesn't constantly need looking after. It ain't a glamor role, just as artilery isn't. You don't get congressional medals of honor for firing an artilery gun, the guys at the front lines get those, but I think they would be very upset if all of a sudden arti support was removed.

While we have had a few bad adjustments to our class as hunters (40% slowdown instead of 50, mercifull shot, fear) we are still the same basic class.

If you want lots of excitement and drama on the battle field, roll a different class. You can have 5 alts.

For me, my hunter is the class I play when I am not in the mood for a thousand different options and constantly have to be on my toes.

Frankly a lot of the complainers in this post should just create a lore-master.

I think I like it that LOTRO has different styles of play depending on class. I can switch alts depending on my mood.

[Dirtball]

The hunter in lotro is artilery, we hit from a distance, way behind the battle lines. It ain't an exciting job because it ain't supposed to be.

A hunter brings very important role to the battlefield, just that most hunters are incapable of figuring it out because they never played a minstrel.

A hunter DOES NOT TAKE DAMAGE IN A BATTLE!
You seem to be of the mistaken impression that all Hunters group in fellowships and not go solo.

[MéLAnoR]

A hunter is not supposed to hold the front lines and take heavy damage in a fellowship or raid decreasing minstrel's load , it's true.However , the fact that most of the hunters prefer solo and the moor mechanins have formed a ranged typed of combat disprove that statement.
Actualy what happens for real is wargs hunt hunters who're doing their peww peww job safely behind , one by one via groups well known as warg-packs and those courageous or somewhat stupid to charge front are zerged immediately after a web or spider stun takes them.
This is what i observe , and i mostly play the stupid hunter but taste the real fun ;) Well if you recall tough battle scenes from history mostly archery or artillery hold the front line till infantry or riders get close enough to own them , so they retreat to their in combat safe lines where they recover and load getting ready for next shots or till the commander allows for "fire at will".
Sadly we don't have such a strategic pvp design in lotro but legendary raids formed by great warriors who knows each other best in battle-field may organise somewhat similar , hopefully new additons to pvmp force us to form raids and face the enemy in a more organised way.
/MeL

[nightbyday]

A hunter is not supposed to hold the front lines and take heavy damage in a fellowship or raid decreasing minstrel's load , it's true.However , the fact that most of the hunters prefer solo and the moor mechanins have formed a ranged typed of combat disprove that statement.
Actualy what happens for real is wargs hunt hunters who're doing their peww peww job safely behind , one by one via groups well known as warg-packs and those courageous or somewhat stupid to charge front are zerged immediately after a web or spider stun takes them.
This is what i observe , and i mostly play the stupid hunter but taste the real fun ;) Well if you recall tough battle scenes from history mostly archery or artillery hold the front line till infantry or riders get close enough to own them , so they retreat to their in combat safe lines where they recover and load getting ready for next shots or till the commander allows for "fire at will".
Sadly we don't have such a strategic pvp design in lotro but legendary raids formed by great warriors who knows each other best in battle-field may organise somewhat similar , hopefully new additons to pvmp force us to form raids and face the enemy in a more organised way.
/MeL


spot on discription, in another game Hunters had the ability to escape which over time was modified (due to being over powered). Hunters in lotro also have the ability to escape DF at best, quick trap at worst (won't work well if your being zerged).

Hunter in lotro PvP should be stand next to the minstrel and behind the main lines if it goes bad... 'escape'. I know hunters get a bad 'rep' for this tactic but ffs this is their job expecting anything else would be like accepting hunters should tank on raids, and if they want to stay in a 'safe area' untill cooldowns are done thats thier choice.

[Felanias]

If hunters are nothing but a taxi, then creeps shouldnt complain when they travel away from them. =)

[heinzglad]

The hunter in lotro is artilery, we hit from a distance, way behind the battle lines. It ain't an exciting job because it ain't supposed to be.

A hunter brings very important role to the battlefield, just that most hunters are incapable of figuring it out because they never played a minstrel.

A hunter DOES NOT TAKE DAMAGE IN A BATTLE!

Now, for one second try and figure out that this means, not by thinking as a hunter who just stands at the back and spams the same attacks over and over, but as one of the healing classes.

We reduce the workload on a minstrels. Ask a minstrel about what they prefer, hunters or champs. Next time you are in a battle, with a champ stop looking at their DPS and look at their morale bar. Then wonder how much minstrels enjoy having to contantly heal the champs as well as the guardian?

What a good hunter brings to the party is large reliable dose of damage that doesn't constantly need looking after. It ain't a glamor role, just as artilery isn't. You don't get congressional medals of honor for firing an artilery gun, the guys at the front lines get those, but I think they would be very upset if all of a sudden arti support was removed.

While we have had a few bad adjustments to our class as hunters (40% slowdown instead of 50, mercifull shot, fear) we are still the same basic class.

If you want lots of excitement and drama on the battle field, roll a different class. You can have 5 alts.

For me, my hunter is the class I play when I am not in the mood for a thousand different options and constantly have to be on my toes.

Frankly a lot of the complainers in this post should just create a lore-master.

I think I like it that LOTRO has different styles of play depending on class. I can switch alts depending on my mood.

Hehe, I wish i read this piece of wisdom before last nights fellowing. Every time the minst drew aggro i tried to take it from him thinking "he can res me, i cant res him" - result: Dead hunter. Has to be said that our guard was around the same level of noobness as me, so basically we got what we deserved.

Had a fun time AND learned a tactilcal lesson anyway, so time not wasted.

[nightbyday]

Hehe, I wish i read this piece of wisdom before last nights fellowing. Every time the minst drew aggro i tried to take it from him thinking "he can res me, i cant res him" - result: Dead hunter. Has to be said that our guard was around the same level of noobness as me, so basically we got what we deserved.

Had a fun time AND learned a tactilcal lesson anyway, so time not wasted.

draw aggro, run off triple trap, run back, cast beneth notice... helps a bit as a tactic

[Ankoyu]

It appears to be a general truth that players of MMORPGs always believe that their class is absolutely useless and keep on whining how much their precious class has been nerfed by the evil developers.

My Main Character is a Hunter and I have to say that it is great fun and that I don't have the impression that there's no point in being a Hunter other than guiding people to different places all over Eriador.

If you have the impression that your Hunter is useless in fellowships this might be related to your skills as a player, but not to the class itself.

Hunters are damage beasts. When I was around Level 39 I could easily solo Trolls with more than 6000 Morale, most non-elite creatures that equal my level die before they even get close to me. Furthermore we have the ultimate convenience, not only can we teleport ourselves and our allies almost anywhere and save repair costs by using desperate flight, we are also able to track all kinds of enemies. Moreover, we have different crowd-control skills, like traps, our legendary skills (rain of thorns and bard's arrow) and cry of the predator, not to mention our special equipment (bow chants, oils, traps).

Our damage skills are unmatched by any of the other classes. Swift Bow, Rain of Arrows, Penetrating shot are just awesome, especially in combination with Quick Shot in Strength Stance (which reduces movement speed by 40%). Merciful Shot might not be too useful while travelling alone, but it rocks in boss fights. In Fellowships you should of course switch to Endurance Stance and when you draw aggro because you simply dealed too much damage in a short time you may still use beneath notice.

In my opinion Hunters are one of the most effective classes and great fun in fellowships as well as solo. There is absolutely no point in believing that our class is useless and only serves as a taxi....

[DrunkenM]

this is what gets to me, all the people saying hunters aren't crap are saying they aren't crap because they help out minstrels.

i don't know about you but nothing, i mean no player in the game can out aggro a hunter working at full dps, i run 350agi with much higher vit/will/might than most hunters, i'm a "low" damage hunter build so far and if i work my dps at maximum peak at all times the best guardian and champ together will not stop a guy running over to hit me.

the only way a hunter is useful to the group is essentially working slowly, not spamming penetrating shots and not drawing aggro, its boring its stupid, its boring, its boring its boring. however much we all fall for the grinding tactics that simply increase amount of months we play the game and pay subscriptions the fact is, its a game. it should be FUN or enjoyable, at least a little bit.

to not draw aggro i stand at the back and purposely not do full damage. even though i'm also very happy to tank, with a high vitality/might setup i can offtank any sig with easy, can normally take down a elite 2-3 levels below me. i'm happy and ENJOY going full dps, making fights/raids go faster, taking a little aggro now and then to help out. but i get shouted at because any other class that see's a hunter at half health thinks it can't be on purpose and is crap.

i've recently rolled a minstrel and find it astonishing the damage levels i can produce even at lvl 25 with a constantly critting piercing cry and a call to the eldars making other attacks to more damage and slowly hurting a whole group as i fight them, and pop heals when needed. if it gets close one click, warcry is dropped instantly and i do a big heal, either continue fighting(by that time the group will be smaller) or can fear one and run away from the rest. not to mention i can damage at almost the same range as hunters, i'm not planted so i can run backwards/away/around from the mob doing more damage than a hunter can before it would finally catch up.

as i see it, minstrel (at least at earlier levels) doesn't do much less damage than a hunter, has no cooldown quick to pull off heals, ability to use exact same armour + shield + block with shield.

so minstrels, not massively less damage, takes less damage due to shield armour, and gets hit less due to block chances and massive heals and will/fate buffs early on in the game aswell as no induction on attacks, plus at some point(only hit lvl 27) a 2nd high damage aoe attack to add in.

Hunters, heartseeker has such a long induction i can in the same time pull off a swiftbow, penetrating shot and a barb'd arrow for same/more damage and if you start with swiftbow it will be cooldown by the time its all done. it makes heartseeked completely and utterly pointless. it simply makes no difference if i use it or not. the occasional time it criticals obviously makes a decent dent in anything.

merciful shot is useless against elites when you can use it, it won't finish it off but leave you with no focus , against a non elite you can't use it till maybe 450-500 health left on a lvl 50, yet it can crit for 1300-1400, so again completely pointless.

this is the NUKER class, with the two most powerful attacks completely and utterly useless. merciful shot at 50% would bring it back into the game, but could do with a reduction to 4/5 focus. heartseeker needs a induction reduction, and a trait that drops its cooldown to 2.5-3 mins. need BETTER threat reduction so i can do the damage. making those two shots useful in fights will increase our dps, increase our aggro and without them i can out aggro anything. :(

[Belion_]

Im a level 50 hunter who raids with 500 agility and i will never pull aggro (unless i intend to do so) going FULL DPS.

you are either grouped with a crappy guardian who has no idea of the concept of aggro management or you yourself are doing something wrong.

Firstly id adivse you to trait the enduracne stance upgrade trait so u get -20% threat and power intead of -%10 if by chance ur still pulling aggro at this point buy sum whisper chants. this is the easy mans way of keeping no aggro.


Now lets talk about how you fight. a hunter should not open with heartseeker or similar high power skills. If you in endurance fre of quickshot several times this has the added bonus of lowering yuor threat while in the endurance stance. after about 4-5 seconds you can start using pen shot swiftbow etc. dont use heartseeker until the mob has been aggroed by the guardian for a decent amount of time.

The second piece of advice is TARGET FORWARDING in a fellowship u should be targeting the tank and in a raid targeting the RAID assist target (usually a tank) this ensure ur not peeling aggro off the tank as they are concentrating on it.