Hunters place in a fellowship

[nightbyday]

This is a very good question espcially since book 11.

a comment i heard was '... i have always seen hunter as a support class...' well this sort of make sense as hunters don't heal and being a meduim armour wearers don't tank (yeah i know but don't, heavy armour = mitigation).

So support class but what?

The two main areas of support are crowd control and DPS, then off tanking extra healing (already covered).

Crowd control for hunters are fears and we know that fears are broken on damage (DOTs AoE or other wise) and if you fear a mob now it might come back with its friends. so fear is very unreliable and hunters don't 'mez'. Traps? traps are very very unpredictable reports that 50%+ are resisted (and i have yet to see the snare trap actually snare properly) even though they still have uses double and triples etc although very expensive. Hunters in summary have poor CC compared to other classes.

Damage per second, It widely accepted that hunters are ranked 3rd for DPS (yes there are exceptions) in a raid/fellowship at end totals. A good champ does awsome DPS and can off tank etc a Lore Master can like wise do very decent DPS and CC etc.

Hunter use is simply a huge burst of damage in a short space of time after a long 'wind up'. most fellowships go at a rate of knots so there is no time to build focus etc to get that huge burst of damage (except on bosses).

In summary it would seem to me a hunter has no place in a general fellowship, 6 places; gardian (tank), minstrel (healer), champion (DPS off tank), lore master (DPS CC etc), Captains (back up on LM champ)... so the 6th place? burgler or hunter? more CC or burst DPS?

To be honest perfection would be tanks that do below average DPS but have awsome taunts and damage mitigation, healers again below average DPS but mega healing (both slow solo leveling). Then everyone else is relatively balanced for DPS with a general extra that works, this way all professions would be equally desireable for those other 4 places.

My thoughts are Hunters are a 3rd level choice for fellowships/raids but primary/secondary choice for soloing.

[Local_1]

Well in my relatively short life as a Hunter I have found in fellowships that cannot find a minstrel that the burst dps does very nicely thank you. kills elites so quickly that there is no need for heal on champions.

True enough I was only level 31 and the 3 champions were 36, 34, 31 but we were killing elite after elite with only my fires to help heal.

The elites were levels 33 to 36 in Dol Dinen.

[nightbyday]

Remember we are looking post book 11 experiences and thoughts and fellow ships were you will expect to meet 'bosses' not standard elites.

Most Hunters and solo standard elites their level and a bit higher (well most elites :P)

[Darzil]

Other possibilities :

You have poison removal, and there are some nasty poisons on some encounters.
You have tracking, which makes finding some wandering bosses much easier (and is my favourite skill in the game, so I'm biased)
You make travelling MUCH faster for the sort of quests that involve a lot of travelling.
I'm sure the crafted traps are usable, if expensive and situational (same as the hope potions I equip all my characters with, which most other people in fellowships seem not to).

I'm sure there is more, but I've only got my own hunter experience up to 16, and experience of what other hunters do when grouped with me.

Note that 'ideal' fellowships are rarely formed, but that 'non-ideal' ones can do very well. Heavy dps fellowships can sometimes overwhelm encounters that otherwise would require tanking and healing, simply because of the level of damage done. Few classes are truely crucial in a fellowship, and none in all fellowships. (Did several hard Angmar fellowship quests yesterday with no tank, due to dps, and a team who picked up all the monsters, leaving my Minstrel free to spam heal)

Darzil

[Local_1]

Remember we are looking post book 11 experiences and thoughts and fellow ships were you will expect to meet 'bosses' not standard elites.

Most Hunters and solo standard elites their level and a bit higher (well most elites :P)

Soloing standard elites has now become a lot harder for hunters around my level traps no longer hold after mobs are bei ng hit from range. In higher levels our fear has been nerfed so although it is still possible it has become a lot harder.

I quite happily solo signatures very easily but elites my level are difficult I have:

1599 Morale
802 power,
273 Agility,
Melee eff 171
Range eff 185
Range crit 15.9%

I am in need of upgrading my armour now but I very rarely die and I am levelling very quickly.

[zimoo]

I don't find myself useless in groups. Our dps is decent enough, and we have very good ranged evade which makes us good off-tanks against archers.

Also, when we pugged Helegrod, I'd like to see how many people wouldn't want me in their group :). I was spamming poison removals on about 8 other players, leaving them free to perform their own roles and at one point I off-tanked about 6-7 mini spiders that were beating the otherwise unaided minstrel :p

Personally, my perfect fellowship is one of each class except a champion. Champions have nice dps and off-tanking true, it's just that MOST champions are complete morons, seemingly aiming to pull aggro from the tank and hit as many cc'ed mobs as possible :p

We are more useful in certain situations than others. For instance, the Helchgam fight. Nuking him from afar, and removing the nasty agility debuffs (which give everyone lower hit chance, lower crit chance and lower defence).

Personally I'm finding myself in high demand, on saturday I had 3 seperate rift invites in about 15 minutes O_o. Pity my kin's tailor took so long to make my armour that I wasn't able to join any :p

No this post doesn't actually contribute to the topic at all, I'm just bored without LOTRO :p

[Dirtball]

Personally I'm finding myself in high demand, on saturday I had 3 seperate rift invites in about 15 minutes O_o. Pity my kin's tailor took so long to make my armour that I wasn't able to join any :p

I'm finding myself in high demand also though I have a feeling this may have more to do with being seen as a taxi service. Maybe I'm just being cynical...

[Yipee]

There is no such thing as an ideal FS lol. Half of your time is always spent trying to get a FS together.

A FS layout for effectiveness for me would be:

Hunter
L. Master
Minstrel
Guardian
Guardian
Hunter

That may look silly ... lol :D

Having more than one minstrel does not guarantee anything, champions are usually 'centre of attention' seekers and ruin most plans lol. Two tanks for pulling and sustaining. Two hunters for effective dps, and a lore master for crowd control and support.

The truth is, there is loads of different combinations that could work. It's usually the actual person's ability and 'know-how' that makes a FS work! :cool:

[MéLAnoR]

There is no such thing as an ideal FS lol. Half of your time is always spent trying to get a FS together.

A FS layout for effectiveness for me would be:

Hunter
L. Master
Minstrel
Guardian
Guardian
Hunter

That may look silly ... lol :D

Having more than one minstrel does not guarantee anything, champions are usually 'centre of attention' seekers and ruin most plans lol. Two tanks for pulling and sustaining. Two hunters for effective dps, and a lore master for crowd control and support.

The truth is, there is loads of different combinations that could work. It's usually the actual person's ability and 'know-how' that makes a FS work! :cool:so one hunter to annoy each guardian ? :P
Actually i have always loved to group with more than 3 hunters for some moderate difficulty quests.We understand and get used to ourselves in 1-2 min and teh fight just flows.But yeah for tough quests , instances involving bosses post book 11 i'd suggest ( lets say a carn dum group) :
Guardian
Minstrel
Minstrel or captain
Loremaster
Burglar
Hunter or champ (it's up to the quest whether involving lots of travel , poison debuff issues..)
I like 2 minstrels in a group or at least one captain helping the minstre it takes away the pressure on minstrel and other fellows making us able to play easier and have more fun.
one last thing i guess you have also noticed that in lff channel we and champs are being called as Dps ( need dps , random etc..) unless they need a hunter for certain travel routes.
/MeL

[Elisar]

Minstrel (healing)
Captain (support healing / buffs / rez)
Lore-master (cc / support healing / power sharing)
Guardian (tank)
other 2 spaces can be filled with burg/hunter/champs..

@ MéLAnoR:
champs are DPS class, we are nuke class (we do dps only to one target because as you know we have only 1 aoe skill and one legendary aoe)

[MéLAnoR]

Minstrel (healing)
Captain (support healing / buffs / rez)
Lore-master (cc / support healing / power sharing)
Guardian (tank)
other 2 spaces can be filled with burg/hunter/champs..

@ MéLAnoR:
champs are DPS class, we are nuke class (we do dps only to one target because as you know we have only 1 aoe skill and one legendary aoe)yes that's true but at lff channel we're called as dps or random.That's what i meant :)

[nightbyday]

reading these so far it is a bit scary if a hunter is considered because the have poison debuff and can taxi... hunters are ranked 3rd at best for DPs over time btw.