Whats the point anymore? [Archive]

Jediknight

30-10-2007, 01:35 AM

Yeh this is another hunter moaning yet again hehe

Well i started playing this game just after release and ive always played wiz type class in all my MMORPs but when i started with LM i thought nah this isnt good so i looked for the next best dps class which was the hunter, i like playing chars who can kill fast but struggle to stay alive due to low armour and no healing etc and the hunter matched this perfectly. But now with all these nerfs the hunter cant dps and cant stay alive, i dont want to re-roll ive put all me efforts into this all his traits,items, pvp ranks,etc i really shudnt have to re-roll just because turbine thinks to many players playing hunters who cares we pay for this game its our choice what char we pay, stuff all this balancing crap just let us play the char the way it was when WE!!! chose our chars.

Im getting so fed up with everytime a new patch comes to find yet another skill nerf or item nerf give it a rest and put us back to the way we was.

I go up against a 4k lvl 50 mob and im coming out dead sometimes and god dam if 2 mobs come then well i might aswell put me bow down and stab me self be quicker death.

This is the hunters fighting problems:

I have to use me bow to do max dmg as we aint a close combat char but omg if we have more than 1 mob on us then our bow even becomes useless as the progress bar for even quick shot yeh QUICK!!! shot gets knocked back to the beginning of the bar so much im sometimes stood there for 10sec without shooting and loosing 200hp per 2 secs great!!!
ok so some might say well dont put ur self in that possition of have 2 mobs on u well thats true but not always possible even when u try and set ur self up rdy for it,
1) place trap useless they run straight through it
2) fear shot not bad but if ur not fast enough ur auto-attack knocks it off, and the shot only gives u 15sec to kill the other mob off which before bk10 patch yeh u could kill it quick enough now u cant so thats useless

Next, whats the point in giving us 50% dmg boost to our mercy shot when since bk 10 think ive managed to use it erm 4 times wow great move it would have been a good move if you dropped the focus so we could actually use it.
Oh and heart seeker comon dont make me laugh i could prob use this more but i always forget why coz the cool down is stupid 10min!!!!! maybe 5min would be abit better and the progress bar time to cast this is another reason i generally dont use it. why? well heart seeker on average does about 1300-1700 in most cases yeh i know it can do more but im speaking generally, so based on that dmg i can shoot 3 quick shots of each 190-260 dmg and 2 penetrating shots each 260-450 = 1090-1680 in the same time as it takes to shoot the heart seeker so to be honest i might aswell just keep spamming quick/pen shot oh btw and thats if the mob doesnt keep knocking the heart seeker progress bar down!!!

Ok finally chants,oils,traps well i use them and yes they do help but at a great costs finacially and tbh ive slowly started to not use them now coz im finding they not much help and they certainly dont compensate for the nerf in dps like turbine said they would.

Ok well if you didnt fall asleep getting this far think ive said me peace. I know alot of this has been said many time over last few weeks but its made me feel alittle better getting this off me chest so plz dont start with all the crap blabla flamming etc.

HardOnails

30-10-2007, 07:46 AM

we are a total joke now

i used to be able to solo hoartusk, it was a hard fight, it took alot of skills, thought (clearing and where to pull to), potions and foods

it pushed me as a player and it was never a 100% easy kill (like many classes still have it) one cockup and i was dead, it was a challange, rewarding gameplay and great fun

i cant even kill flippin 43 turtles now without dying

i spent 4 hours in the rift and used 3 keys the whole time and 1 DF

thanks to turbine we are a totally broken and pointless class

as a solo play class we are the weakest class in game now with the most limited functionality

as a grp play class we are pointless, our dps is pwnd by champions, our crowd control is pointless as 99% of it is out of combat only, rain of thorns is pointless in a raid like the rift since it has such a random area of effect it will break any CC mobs, we cant lay traps in combat and since most mobs have 40k or there are many in a pull we are in combat so long we simply cant trap anything

bards the leg trait (and our animal fear) is now pointless to us, it was our only damage mitigation skill, now its as weaker than many lvl 20 vendor skills (as many types of mobs are immune to it)

3 poxy keys in 4 hours......

im just waiting to see what we get hammered with in bk12

my monies on bows and xbows being class specific and hunters wont be able to use them

Makapanman

30-10-2007, 08:06 AM

I agree that we've been hit n hit repeatedly with the nerf-bat.

I've seen a couple of complaints about Heartseeker which revolve around the long induction with the argument that the same damage is possible in that time.

I use it as an opening shot at max range

1, no chance of interuption
2, no loss of focus

I'm pretty sure that's how it's supposed to be used

Shariva

30-10-2007, 08:45 AM

Reading the above posts and most particular the OP, I personally don't have much problems with most MOB's. I was, what I call, "faction" grinding the last few days in Imlad, and regularly took on two wights or slaves at the time without much trouble. Sure, taking on a warden or marksman of 4K - 4.5K HP takes some time and I have to be carefull not to get an add, but I usually kill those aswell along with the wrigglers the warden or slaves spawn there.
Hell, I've been unlucky enough to take on two ironbound slaves and get three wrigglers. Then when you have one wriggler left the third ironbound slave comes into play. Granted, the wrigglers are dead soon enough, but the ironbound slave makes it more challenging.

I have the same setup I had when I made level 50 just after book 9 hit live. My armor is mostly based around health and with as much armor as I can muster on medium kind (Galadhrim armor FTW). With my items and clothing based on this primarily, I muster about 3K HP and 1700 power. I have the Bow of the Rightious trait equipped and use a demoralise bow for just that little bit of extra health that might transfer to me.
With this setup, I can take on two to three 2K hp enemies but they shouldn't come all at once, because then I'm dead if I stay around. :p If that happens, I start practising my "running like a girl" skill (I play a female hunter, so I'm allowed to :D ).
When taking on an ironbound warden (4000 - 4500 HP ), I always place a basic trap. If it works, it works. If it doesn't work, to bad but I'll come out on top. Before drawing the warden, I gain my focus. Then I draw the warden with a penetrating shot and immediately cue a swift bow. This usually deals a lot of damage befor it walks into the trap. After that I use a quick shot if it's in melee range, or a barbed arrow if it's in the trap. This is followed again by a penetrating shot. Then I swich between quick shot and penetrating shot to get it's health down quickly and below what I have left. Once the *******s health is lower then mine, I know he's gonna drop. I ignore the wrigglers that are spawned because they die easily enough after the warden is dead.
After the warden is dropped, I take out the wriggler(s) (usually not more then one) with swift bow, barbed arrow and penetrating shots.
They key in the aforementioned method is to not run out of focus to fast, because you hardly have time to use the instant focus generation skill. I only use that one if there is a little pause in the battle (When the warden lets the wriggler spawn for instance).

we are a total joke now

I don't think that we hunters are the laughing stock of the community with the changes that book 11 bring. One just has to adjust to the changes and adjust ones playing style to it.
Sure the changes to the hunter look more common then there are leaves on tree, but they're not so devestating to the class that we are a joke. We can still deal a great deal of damage. It might not be that much so that we can drop a 7K HP enemy before it reaches us, but it's enough to take out a 4K - 4.5K MOB.

HardOnails

30-10-2007, 12:46 PM

Reading the above posts and most particular the OP, I personally don't have much problems with most MOB's. I was, what I call, "faction" grinding the last few days in Imlad, and regularly took on two wights or slaves at the time without much trouble. Sure, taking on a warden or marksman of 4K - 4.5K HP takes some time and I have to be carefull not to get an add, but I usually kill those aswell along with the wrigglers the warden or slaves spawn there.
Hell, I've been unlucky enough to take on two ironbound slaves and get three wrigglers. Then when you have one wriggler left the third ironbound slave comes into play. Granted, the wrigglers are dead soon enough, but the ironbound slave makes it more challenging.

I have the same setup I had when I made level 50 just after book 9 hit live. My armor is mostly based around health and with as much armor as I can muster on medium kind (Galadhrim armor FTW). With my items and clothing based on this primarily, I muster about 3K HP and 1700 power. I have the Bow of the Rightious trait equipped and use a demoralise bow for just that little bit of extra health that might transfer to me.
With this setup, I can take on two to three 2K hp enemies but they shouldn't come all at once, because then I'm dead if I stay around. :p If that happens, I start practising my "running like a girl" skill (I play a female hunter, so I'm allowed to :D ).
When taking on an ironbound warden (4000 - 4500 HP ), I always place a basic trap. If it works, it works. If it doesn't work, to bad but I'll come out on top. Before drawing the warden, I gain my focus. Then I draw the warden with a penetrating shot and immediately cue a swift bow. This usually deals a lot of damage befor it walks into the trap. After that I use a quick shot if it's in melee range, or a barbed arrow if it's in the trap. This is followed again by a penetrating shot. Then I swich between quick shot and penetrating shot to get it's health down quickly and below what I have left. Once the *******s health is lower then mine, I know he's gonna drop. I ignore the wrigglers that are spawned because they die easily enough after the warden is dead.
After the warden is dropped, I take out the wriggler(s) (usually not more then one) with swift bow, barbed arrow and penetrating shots.
They key in the aforementioned method is to not run out of focus to fast, because you hardly have time to use the instant focus generation skill. I only use that one if there is a little pause in the battle (When the warden lets the wriggler spawn for instance).

I don't think that we hunters are the laughing stock of the community with the changes that book 11 bring. One just has to adjust to the changes and adjust ones playing style to it.
Sure the changes to the hunter look more common then there are leaves on tree, but they're not so devestating to the class that we are a joke. We can still deal a great deal of damage. It might not be that much so that we can drop a 7K HP enemy before it reaches us, but it's enough to take out a 4K - 4.5K MOB.

your talkin about 4k mobs, there crap and utterly boring to kill, ive seen guardians take down 20k mobs without loosing half there health and a minstral has taken down a 38k mob solo

so solo we can handle crap boring mobs whoppie do while just about everyother class can do way way more

and in long fights like in the raid even on trash we bring nothing to the fight as our traps are out of combat and rain of thorns breaks stuns/mez

with respect your a person that apears to be happy with very little in life

i have 1400 hours played on my hunter now and we are without doubt the most broken and pathetic class in lotro now

4 hours in the rift hitting 3 buttons ......

i want a challange and class that can do well if played properly making use of many skills and pots/foods/buffs etc, hunters used to be this, now we are just dull to play

Elisar

30-10-2007, 12:49 PM

Shariva

30-10-2007, 01:47 PM

your talkin about 4k mobs, there crap and utterly boring to kill, ive seen guardians take down 20k mobs without loosing half there health and a minstral has taken down a 38k mob solo

Yes, I was talking about 4K mobs that are not elite, signature, nemesis or whatever, since the OP wasn't talking about them either. I was primerily answering to that post. If you want to handle 20K - 38K mobs, re-roll as a guardian or loremaster. I also rolled a guardian and do in fact know that they can take a horse-load of damage, but also dish out very little damage.
As for the minstrel and/or loremaster taking on 20K - 38K mobs, I say I'm happy for them and for me as a hunter. It takes the role of off-tank from my shoulders and puts it onto theirs. It means I can fully focus on nuking a target and that's what my role is in a group.

i have 1400 hours played on my hunter now and we are without doubt the most broken and pathetic class in lotro now

i want a challange and class that can do well if played properly making use of many skills and pots/foods/buffs etc, hunters used to be this, now we are just dull to play

These two quotes make me laugh actually: You complain about being the most broken class in the game and want a challenge. Doesn't playing the most broken class in the game present a huge challenge?? Especially if you want to be still usefull in that class??

It just sounds to me you want a challenge and in the same time you want the best defense and offense there can be in the game. That way you can solo just about everything, don't need any groups to complete instances or raids and are just an uber-leet hunter. I think the possibility to solo just about everything presents no challenge what-so-ever. I take the most broken class for a real good challenge anytime. This forces me to make the best out of it.

Shariva

30-10-2007, 02:05 PM

we are a joke.. since u didn't been lvl50 before 1st "update" u don't know how much damage we did before with some nice xbow (xbow of the hunt/victory of minas something).. swift was dealing about 1000 damage (more if you crit).. merciful was also dealing 700+..

It is true that I didn't make level 50 before book 9 hit. I however did start playing pre-launch and still remember the amount of damage hunters did back in those days.

then legolas wannabes started complaining about overpower of xbows so they nurfed xbows.. then we got huge power drain so they add stupid useless skill witch cant be used if you solo..

OK, I agree with you that the crossbow in terms of DPS was not overpowered. It's a common fact that a crossbow does more damage then a normal (long)bow. A single shot from a crossbow can be deadly. However, the crossbow normally takes a longer time to load then a (long)bow. I would much rather have seen that the time taken to fire a special or the time taken between firing specials was increased, then that the DPS of the crossbow was lowered.
The second one, the huge powerdrain, wasn't introduced until book 10 hit. On the other hand, a few other skills now require less focus to be used.

and now we LOST our LEGENDARY skill.. it is bad enough it brakes on damage, but pull more mobs..

I have no particular interest in argueing with you about the dreadful loss of one of our best legendary skills. This is a slap in the face. I'm on board with you there.
About the running away in fear and getting help; I noticed this sometimes also happens before book 11 was introduced when you got a mob down to a certain amount of health. It would run away and got back with some friends if they were in range. I mean, if you were to run away in fear and know where some friends would be, would you not ask them to help you and go back?? Sure you would.:p

I still am conviced that we are not the joke of the game. So we're not able to kill an opponent before it reaches us. Is that such a bad thing? I say not. It requires some adjusting and getting use to, but it's not the end of the world.

Felindor

30-10-2007, 02:18 PM

Originally posted by Shariva
It just sounds to me you want a challenge and in the same time you want the best defense and offense there can be in the game. That way you can solo just about everything, don't need any groups to complete instances or raids and are just an uber-leet hunter. I think the possibility to solo just about everything presents no challenge what-so-ever. I take the most broken class for a real good challenge anytime. This forces me to make the best out of it.

I don't find anything funny in re-learn how to play my hunter again and again. And change his stats/equip over and over. Do you? If you do, you are luckey.

I'm angry with the changes, so i won't comfort myself saying "hey, let's try to re-build the character, and keep playing it". I can't do that cause i can't play a class that i don't like.
Hunter was the perfect class for solo time ago. Lot of us like to soloing too or are forced to solo because his kinship is very small (is that a crime? why do we have to carry a friend all the time if we want to do some funny stuff?)

Fellowships will avoid hunters now, u will see. Why invite a hunter if a second Lore Master or Minstrel will be better for the team?

So...what's the point now?

Shariva

30-10-2007, 02:38 PM

I don't find anything funny in re-learn how to play my hunter again and again. And change his stats/equip over and over. Do you? If you do, you are luckey.

Then maybe I am lucky. I have been soloing so far and mostly been grinding reputation with the counsil of the north. And quite frankly, I'm not going to change the stats and clothing on my hunter now. This simply because I don't have the cash for it. Maybe I need to some day, but it's not this day. ;)

I'm angry with the changes, so i won't comfort myself saying "hey, let's try to re-build the character, and keep playing it". I can't do that cause i can't play a class that i don't like.

This will sound like something you don't want to hear; but nobody is forcing you to play a character you don't like to play. You have the option to roll multiple characters and can always choose to roll another toon on another class. Don't get me wrong; I know it's not easy to do that and perhaps you don't want to. I can fully understand that.
Just like I can fully understand that people are angry with the changes. There are changes from book 10 and 11 alike that I don't agree with. The increase in power cost for specials with book 10, the loss of Bard's Arrow with book 11 to name but two.
The matter of the fact is that I, personally, won't stop playing my hunter. I want to make the best of my hunter given the circomstances of the way hunter is now. If that makes me a lucky person, nice.

Hunter was the perfect class for solo time ago. Lot of us like to soloing too or are forced to solo because his kinship is very small (is that a crime? why do we have to carry a friend all the time if we want to do some funny stuff?)

Off course it's not crime to play solo. If I came across as someone who passes judgement over people that like to solo-play, I apologise for it. It was not my intention, as I myself like to solo aswell. It's what I've been doing mostly since book 11 came out. Mostly because I wanted to find out what my hunter was capable of and the best way for me to find that out is take on mobs solo.

Fellowships will avoid hunters now, u will see. Why invite a hunter if a second Lore Master or Minstrel will be better for the team? So...what's the point now?

If you look at it that way, I can see your point. But on the other hand, fellowships have been avoiding hunters on the server I play on for quite some time now. This was mainly because there were far to many hunters on the server. Still that didn't stop many PUG's to invite me. And I had little complains coming my way. Sure you make a mistake once or twice, but everybody does.
On the other hand, a hunter in the group can still be usefull to the rest of the group. The guardian, the champion, the captain, the minstrel and the burglar are all pure melee classes. The only remotely viable ranged class to the hunter is the lore-master. But I believe they still have to be closer to the battle our fellowship is in then we are. We are still the games pure and only ranged DPS class. Our role has shifted somewhat from pure nuking to more overview of the battle. We can see additions and/or patrols strolling into the fight and act accordingly. All the melee classes will be to busy to do that. Personally, I still se a point to invite a hunter. (Not to mention we can track enemies and wildlife and purge most poisons from our friends).

HardOnails

30-10-2007, 02:43 PM

Then maybe I am lucky. I have been soloing so far and mostly been grinding reputation with the counsil of the north. And quite frankly, I'm not going to change the stats and clothing on my hunter now. This simply because I don't have the cash for it. Maybe I need to some day, but it's not this day. ;)

This will sound like something you don't want to hear; but nobody is forcing you to play a character you don't like to play. You have the option to roll multiple characters and can always choose to roll another toon on another class. Don't get me wrong; I know it's not easy to do that and perhaps you don't want to. I can fully understand that.
Just like I can fully understand that people are angry with the changes. There are changes from book 10 and 11 alike that I don't agree with. The increase in power cost for specials with book 10, the loss of Bard's Arrow with book 11 to name but two.
The matter of the fact is that I, personally, won't stop playing my hunter. I want to make the best of my hunter given the circomstances of the way hunter is now. If that makes me a lucky person, nice.

Off course it's not crime to play solo. If I came across as someone who passes judgement over people that like to solo-play, I apologise for it. It was not my intention, as I myself like to solo aswell. It's what I've been doing mostly since book 11 came out. Mostly because I wanted to find out what my hunter was capable of and the best way for me to find that out is take on mobs solo.

If you look at it that way, I can see your point. But on the other hand, fellowships have been avoiding hunters on the server I play on for quite some time now. This was mainly because there were far to many hunters on the server. Still that didn't stop many PUG's to invite me. And I had little complains coming my way. Sure you make a mistake once or twice, but everybody does.
On the other hand, a hunter in the group can still be usefull to the rest of the group. The guardian, the champion, the captain, the minstrel and the burglar are all pure melee classes. The only remotely viable ranged class to the hunter is the lore-master. But I believe they still have to be closer to the battle our fellowship is in then we are. We are still the games pure and only ranged DPS class. Our role has shifted somewhat from pure nuking to more overview of the battle. We can see additions and/or patrols strolling into the fight and act accordingly. All the melee classes will be to busy to do that. Personally, I still se a point to invite a hunter. (Not to mention we can track enemies and wildlife and purge most poisons from our friends).

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Shariva

30-10-2007, 03:01 PM

this should be more your cup of tea

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HardOnails

30-10-2007, 03:03 PM

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leave my cat alone ....

Shariva

30-10-2007, 03:04 PM

leave my cat alone ....

Hey, you directed me to your cat yourself. :p

Jediknight

31-10-2007, 03:14 AM

after reading some of the comments here im like wtf

i dont want to have to reroll to a champ or LM just to solo a 20k mob, the hunter as per description in the manual is The Nuker class but we cant even nuke anything. Shud have been called the The Joker class.

The things people are trying to say is all our skills and traits lean towards what we orginally was the nuker we kill fast and hope not to die, we have nothing really that helps us stay alive execpt the fact we could kill fast enough and fear the add to get out of trouble now we cant kill fast and cant fear the add. We now have to stand there and tank any mobs that come and kill them slower without any heals/ability to control them like other classes can. I have a LM which is lvl 45 and he can solo 3 lvl 50 10k mobs with ease and kill 1 of them faster than me hunter can but hold on the hunter is the nuker this is the main point people are getting at that we no longer are what we suppose to be, if 1 10k mob came on me hunter he would maybe with some luck handle it but 3 not a chance.

All im saying is something needs sorting out with the hunter we need to have some things put back to the way they used to be and turbine needs to listen to the PLAYERS not to what they think needs doing!!!!!

Druman

31-10-2007, 04:54 AM

I agree fully with Jedi on this. If I wanted to play another class then I would have chosen that one to start. I didn't, I chose a hunter and I should not have to reroll it because it has been made into a class incapable of filling any role.

I am actually rather disappointed at the other hunters who are too weak to complain and get this fixed. Every hunter out there who says "adapt", or "roll another class" or "learn to use tactics" needs to remember on thing. Do other classes have to "adapt" every time a new patch comes out to play the game? Do other classes have to "roll another class" to play the game? Do other classes have to "learn to use tactics" to play the game? Of course they do not, so please, act like a hunter and fight this.

We may not be able to defeat any elite masters, or in many cases more than one mob at a time in the game, but as a whole and as a group who sticks together we can defeat something bigger. We can get Turbine to back down and change the hunter to be a fun, playable and soloable class that we all rolled, all pay to play and all enjoyed playing.

Shariva

31-10-2007, 08:43 AM

I do not agree with you on the not having to adept to changes for other classes, Druman. With every change, positive or negative, a character will have to adjust to them. This is indeed more so when the change is negative, then when the change is positive.

When a change is considered negative, the adjustments that need to be made by the character are a few major ones regarding setup, clothing/armor, playing style for solo playing, playing style for group play, etc.

When a change is positive, the adjustment is most likely only applicable to group play, and so much to solo play.

To explain the above part; the hunter was, at least on the server I play on, avoided for group play most times because most people started with a damaging shot and instantly draw aggro from the tank. This caused a lot of aggrevation and hunter hating among guardians. This "steeling" of aggro by the hunter is now not so much an issue anymore, since loremaster do the main DPS now in a group. They are the ones that now have to be carefull with what attack they use as the first one.

Adepting and adjusting is in order for loremasters in group play.

On the other hand, I do agree that the role of main nuker in this game is now stolen from us by the devs and more or less given to the loremaster. Not that I don't mind them having more damage output, they were the weakest class in the game, but I think it was a little overdone. Having a horse-load of damage output themselves and a pet that does a horse-load of damage output is a little to much of the good thing. A loremaster with a pet is more or less a oneman army.

Since I don't see this changed by a hotfix within the next two weeks, I believe that adjusting to the changes is the best thing we can do while we fight this. I'm all for fighting this issue, but in a well constructed way. I personally would see that the role of main nuker is restored to the hunter and that the damage output to the hunter is made better to achieve this goal.

Chasak

31-10-2007, 11:59 AM

...... I'm all for fighting this issue, but in a well constructed way. ....
As constructive as these muppets of Devs that though nerfing us multiple times without listening to what we have to say? If they would have listened, it would never have come to this state.

For me, Book10 wasn't to bad (nerf wise), but it wasn't "Month of the Hunter". We got jack ****ing ****, no one gives a **** about traps and the only new shot we got is at lvl50 and it's a PoS. Then Book11 hit in and suddenly Book10 combined with Book11 meant a major change in play style (drop some traits and replace them with mana saving / focus giving), some of our better skills get a resist check that blows us away and the crap with fear was just the icing on the cake. The only positive i see from Book11 is the crap pathing AI

Shariva

31-10-2007, 12:26 PM

As constructive as these muppets of Devs that though nerfing us multiple times without listening to what we have to say? If they would have listened, it would never have come to this state.

I agree that if there was some form of constructive dialog between players and developers, thing might not be as bad as they are now.
I play two MMO's and found that both have one thing in common: The tweaking is most commonly done in the form of nerfing.
Although on the other MMO the community has made it possible once to prevent it by suggesting another method of balancing then just nerfing a side or profession/class. This proved to me that the developers are not always blind to other ideas and if constructive feedback is provided, the chance of implementing it the way the community wants is much larger.

Felindor

31-10-2007, 02:07 PM

Originally posted by Shariva
This proved to me that the developers are not always blind to other ideas and if constructive feedback is provided, the chance of implementing it the way the community wants is much larger.

Totally agree.
I'm not good with numbers, and I don't count how much DPS I inflict per second in every moment. For me, it takes away all the fun from the game.
I don't look for being super-uber or "the ultimate hunter" either...

But you know, as a class that don't have self healing at all, or damage mitigation, the only thing we had in our hand was Bard's arrow power (legendary trait). I tested my hunter the second day Book 11 came to live with some turtles and a 7k elite and i thought BA and Rain of Thorns were bugged, even i asked on OOC channel because i was veeery confused. The only thing i could do is run and run to avoid the direct attacks :( And even remember that BA missed a lot.
I think... devs didn't told anything about that "nerf" (or "fix", is your choice) in Patch Notes, and I felt very very very disappointed and sad. I handle Book 10 changes quite well, but Book 11 fixing has become too much for me, destroying all what i built and my gameplay style.

I'm not good giving alternative ideas for fixing either, sorry. But, i know something for sure: break two legendary powers are not the answer for a good fix/balance in my modest opinion.

Don't want to be critic with Lore Masters or Minstrels (hey, i play both classes too when have time), but... have anybody take a look at their power's quantity? or what mobs a lvl 50 LM/Mins can handle? I'm not jealous, really (a good LM or Minstrel is always necessary), but this situation is totally unfair.

Can't understand why some part of the population look at us as the overpowered class. Cause we like to solo? It's a fact that the 90% of ppl who like to solo took the hunter as the main character because it's a very versatile class, nothing more (track, tp and stuff). I never choosed Hunter because it was meant to be the Great Damage Dealer, and time has proved us right: in all MMORPG's real Damage Dealers are not tanks and take a lot of agro, and usually die a lot.
We don't have any kind of heal, so...are we really overpowered?

Shariva

31-10-2007, 03:08 PM

I'm not good giving alternative ideas for fixing either, sorry. But, i know something for sure: break two legendary powers are not the answer for a good fix/balance in my modest opinion.

No worries about thinking up an alternative, I'm not coming up with much besides saying that the hunter is to return to it's primary role of nuker. All I can come up with in this case is bringing the DPS of a hunter back to where it belongs; at the top. I don't see this happen anytime soon and I fear it somehow leads to the nerf-bat hitting the dps of the loremaster and the minstrel.

Can't understand why some part of the population look at us as the overpowered class. Cause we like to solo? It's a fact that the 90% of ppl who like to solo took the hunter as the main character because it's a very versatile class, nothing more (track, tp and stuff). I never choosed Hunter because it was meant to be the Great Damage Dealer, and time has proved us right: in all MMORPG's real Damage Dealers are not tanks and take a lot of agro, and usually die a lot. We don't have any kind of heal, so...are we really overpowered?

No, we are far from overpowered. At the moment we do avarage damage and without a nice health pool and/or a few ethalas potions, we're dead if we're not carefull.

Darzil

31-10-2007, 03:15 PM

Don't want to be critic with Lore Masters or Minstrels (hey, i play both classes too when have time), but... have anybody take a look at their power's quantity? or what mobs a lvl 50 LM/Mins can handle? I'm not jealous, really (a good LM or Minstrel is always necessary), but this situation is totally unfair.

They certainly looked at the power costs for Minstrels. The key for a Minstrel killing really hard stuff is the amount you can heal and the amount you regenerate power (and an opponent that attacks slowly, so you can use your most power efficient heals without being interrupted). The last patch added another 30% or so to the power cost of heals. Tale of Heroism (fate/wil buff) was nerfed, by adding a power cost per second, so that the Minstrel now loses power regeneration if they run it, rather than gaining it.

The new 'war chant' stance is much better for killing similar or lower levelled opponents. The Minstrel is certainly faster than the Guardian now (it wasn't before, unless they used Noble Cause, which has a cooldown) at killing such foes, and not very far behind a Champion or Hunter. Killing one yellow normal with 'war chant' will use up something like 30-40% of my Minstrel's power bar. Can sometimes use it against signatures, it's suicide against elites (it halves healing done). Put simply it speeds up killing at the price of being much less safe.

Killing equal level elites before the patch, my Minstrel could usually regenerate enough power to use piercing cry and heralds strike as well as being able to heal herself. Now it's only enough for healing herself, so such fights last at least twice as long (10mins rather than 5mins).

Just found another power change. Instruments that reduced ballad and anthem power cost now reduce it less. Criticalled drums now increase power cost more.

Darzil

Druman

31-10-2007, 03:19 PM

Dale E

31-10-2007, 04:38 PM

we are a total joke now

i used to be able to solo hoartusk, it was a hard fight, it took alot of skills, thought (clearing and where to pull to), potions and foods

it pushed me as a player and it was never a 100% easy kill (like many classes still have it) one cockup and i was dead, it was a challange, rewarding gameplay and great fun

i cant even kill flippin 43 turtles now without dying

as a grp play class we are pointless, our dps is pwnd by champions, our crowd control is pointless as 99% of it is out of combat only, rain of thorns is pointless in a raid like the rift since it has such a random area of effect it will break any CC mobs, we cant lay traps in combat and since most mobs have 40k or there are many in a pull we are in combat so long we simply cant trap anything

Don't really understand what you're talking about. I soloed hoartusk with ease a day ago, and i can take a turtle down without even losing over 1k moral.

Our dps is still the best in the game, we have fear with a low CD (we can regen in that time, have skills CD). Im doing as much damage as i ever was with Celegdur, our merciful shot has been buffed (ive critted for over 1.5k with it) and our other skills are as good as they ever were.

And if im not mistaken we CAN lay traps in combat, i can drop 3 traps in about a second, or 1 unbreakable one. Granted, these do cost money, but they can be worth it.

Jediknight

31-10-2007, 08:27 PM

Don't really understand what you're talking about. I soloed hoartusk with ease a day ago, and i can take a turtle down without even losing over 1k moral.

Our dps is still the best in the game, we have fear with a low CD (we can regen in that time, have skills CD). Im doing as much damage as i ever was with Celegdur, our merciful shot has been buffed (ive critted for over 1.5k with it) and our other skills are as good as they ever were.

And if im not mistaken we CAN lay traps in combat, i can drop 3 traps in about a second, or 1 unbreakable one. Granted, these do cost money, but they can be worth it.

omg how did u get to shoot mercy shot lol plz tell me i would love to shoot it sometime hehe

as for shav ive read you points and agree with some and totally not with others coz you totally missing the point of this whole chat

Shariva

01-11-2007, 08:30 AM

Shariva, your missing the point. I don't care what you think. I only care what the devs think and apart from the first sentence, I did not even read your fanboi posting.

This answer might come across as a flame, but it to me seems you don't want to have a constructive discussion about changes and only want to hear and voice your own opinion. I understand you want to voice your own opinion, but doing that by saying you don't care what others think, makes you such an incredible inmature person, that I don't even wish to argue with you anymore. As a matter of fact; your attemps to try to flame by calling me a fanboi, makes you far more a fanboi then I am. Your inability to try and start a constructive dialog and convince someone who thinks differently doesn't help you either. If you think that whining and flaming is the way to get things done, be my guest but leave me out of this. It seems to me that whining the only thing you are capable of.

I wish you a very happy day.

Shariva

01-11-2007, 08:32 AM

as for shav ive read you points and agree with some and totally not with others coz you totally missing the point of this whole chat

I understand that you might think this way, but I would like to know where I would be missing the point then. Perhaps you can eleborate a bit more where I'm missing the point.

Daguras

01-11-2007, 01:00 PM

Don't really understand what you're talking about....

What that guy said. I actually find I have slightly more DPS since the patch and find turtles easier than before... crit with HS for 2.5k+, crit with Pen shot for 400+,crits with Swift Bow for 500+ each hit, crit with MS for 1400+, autoattacks in between for 180+... rinse and repeat.

Fear breaking on DoT is annoying, probably bugged though so no issue, and Bard Arrow is now awesome in EM. Still possible to use fear so long as you hit the mob again before the effect expires.. I even managed to solo 2-3 elites archers in EM last night, all had 4k HP and I didn't even have BA slotted (Elronds Gift is great, glad I dumped the bugged necklace before the patch ^^)

In book 10 the same people were crying "nerf". In book 10 I cried "woohoo" and started using all the skills I rarely used before... A few nights ago in the Rift one team member even noticed that I can give give them a +49% poison resist buff and cure 3 stacked effects (since bk 11, was only 1 before).

Druman

01-11-2007, 02:03 PM

This answer might come across as a flame.

Yes, it does. Was my post immature, no it wasn't. Is this a flame, probably depending on how you read it.

I have Aspergers Syndrome of which I have already stated in a previous post (different thread). The way the game has changed has vastly effected my enjoyment far more that it could have ever changed yours.

I do not cope well in groups of any kind and choose to play these games with a select small amount of friends or solo. Pickup groups for me are something I avoid in the same way that you avoid logic. Are my views based upon what I see and want? What a stupid question, of course they are! Why on earth would I attempt to change something for someone that I don't know which would totally go against what is a course of action that benefits my own playstyle and enjoyment. That conclusion you made there was indeed immature.

When you quote someone directly and then tell them in that post that you disagree with them then expect a reply and do not expect a nice one. I care little for what you want or what you expect. It is not my role in life to pamper Shariva (thank god). I have my own opinions and reasons for posting what I believe is correct as do you, except I do not single people out because my posts are meant as part of a general discussion for the entire board community.

You could not possibly, ever, under any circumstances understand how these changes effect me and I honestly don't care an iota how they effect you. I also don't care how your day was.

Vastis

08-11-2007, 01:47 PM

The new 'war chant' stance is much better for killing similar or lower levelled opponents. The Minstrel is certainly faster than the Guardian now (it wasn't before, unless they used Noble Cause, which has a cooldown) at killing such foes, and not very far behind a Champion or Hunter. Killing one yellow normal with 'war chant' will use up something like 30-40% of my Minstrel's power bar. Can sometimes use it against signatures, it's suicide against elites (it halves healing done). Put simply it speeds up killing at the price of being much less safe.

My main is a Minstrel and the change is drastic. Earlier fights were fought like with a Guardian, long battles with enemy morale dropping down slowly, hoping I wouldn't run out of power. Now suddenly I'm a power house. Guardian one level higher than me wasn't doing half what I was, it seemed. Of course I really let it fly and when soloing I ended at more like 30-40% power LEFT.

Like I said to our kinship Guardian and Hunter, I'm dead sure Minstrel DPS will get a nerf. I think, as a Minstrel, the damage is too high, even if I love finally being able to kill things alone! :o

Our kinship "main cadre" consisted of the basic well-balanced team: Tank to keep enemies occupied, Damage Dealer (plus taxi :lol: ) and Healer to keep us alive. Everything else was extra damage or buffs/debuffs. Now this has changed although the fact that Hunter's still a good 3 levels higher than the rest makes up for it. I find myself using War-Speech constantly, being careful about power usage and taking it off only in tough healing situations.

I'm glad to see more positive comments about Hunters, who bite their lip and adjust, letting my part-time cook/jeweler hunter wait patiently.